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‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

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Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#71

Post by st3v3r »

curioussavage wrote: post #49
bduerst wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so it's fine. Not according to copyright law. Just because you have a computer (with a browser) doesn't give you the right to do what you want with someone else's content.

A law does not establish if something is really immoral. And until people with dollar signs in their eyes don't have all the sway in making those calls I reserve the right to resist. Once you send information out into the world. you DONT own it. Real ownership is the ability to exert control over something. Divulged information cannot be controlled by the original source.

So resist by not visiting those sites. Once you say that you are still entitled to the content, you have lost any claim to moral high ground, and are just acting like an entitled child.

"Once you send information out into the world. you DONT own it."

This sounds like someone who believes that if something comes up in a Google image search, it's free game for anyone to use.

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#72

Post by PeCaN »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #63
PeCaN wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? has been the standard workaround since like… 2005, if not earlier, and works quite fine without JavaScript (assuming your server-side supports it, and most or all common frameworks do).

That's a workaround only if the server forges the value of '_method' into method via. Middleware

> assuming your server-side supports it, and most or all common frameworks do

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#73

Post by tummybug »

I just downloaded this and went to test it out. I went straight to a torrent site to see how it worked. The was a noticeable difference in how fast the page loaded but the pop under on the site still managed to open a tab with some shady advertising. I imagine they are still working out the kinks but when they are as effective as blocking ads as an ad-blocker and maintains its speed this will be a great browser.

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#74

Post by hsod »

seibelj wrote: post #43
curioussavage wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You send me some html, css and Javascript from YOUR domain to MY computer. I reserve the right to do what I want with it. YOU have NO right to determine what I do with it after you send it to me. It is pointless to think that rules regarding that can be enforced anyways. To me that is the reality of the situation, its like we are debating if gravity should pull us down or not. Edit: for civility (with lack of sleep a…

This person's phrasing of his / her sentiment is a tad off-putting, which is why I imagine people are downvoting, but honestly I see it as the same way: I made a TCP request and fetched your data. How my data display device (i.e. web browser) displays it is up to me. If I choose to alter it or enhance it, that's up to me. It was your decision to send me your data, not to tell me how to display it.

This assumes that there is no implicit or explicit agreement between you and the content host.

What if the site's TOS made you explicitly agree not to block ads (not in a hidden legalese way but with clear UX)? Would that change your calculus?

What if the site owner was a friend of yours, and asked you personally not to block ads? Would that?

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#75

Post by Ar-Curunir »

MichaelGG wrote: post #59
Paul-ish wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to think two steps ahead here. Say everyone starts using ad blockers and disables flash. Then what? Websites still need to make money. In this case Brave is betting that websites will want to ask for money from their users, but that each website maintaining their own subscription service is not viable. Maybe large websites like WSJ can get people to subscribe, but most probably cannot. Do you want to…

So what's Bitcoin have to do with it? Seems like that's a gimmick. Just provide a normal refillable/subscription account, then pay out the websites. Isn't that what Flattr or some such company already does? Onboarding customers with Bitcoin is a sure way to avoid making money. You could pay out on the backend with BTC but that's a minor detail. With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. So they're almost c…

There are a few ways to do bitcoin micropayments. There's lightning payment channels, probabilistic micropayments [PassShelat 15,16].

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#76

Post by lmm »

wyager wrote: post #64
MichaelGG wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's Bitcoin have to do with it? Seems like that's a gimmick. Just provide a normal refillable/subscription account, then pay out the websites. Isn't that what Flattr or some such company already does? Onboarding customers with Bitcoin is a sure way to avoid making money. You could pay out on the backend with BTC but that's a minor detail. With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. So they're almost c…

> With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. False. https://bitcoinj.github.io/working-with-micropayments

That still requires 2 transactions for every (user, site) pair. On a network that can do 10 transaction/second total. It might be usable for certain classes of micropayment, but certainly not for a "every website I visit" scenario.

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#77

Post by Animats »

MichaelGG wrote: post #59
Paul-ish wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to think two steps ahead here. Say everyone starts using ad blockers and disables flash. Then what? Websites still need to make money. In this case Brave is betting that websites will want to ask for money from their users, but that each website maintaining their own subscription service is not viable. Maybe large websites like WSJ can get people to subscribe, but most probably cannot. Do you want to…

So what's Bitcoin have to do with it? Seems like that's a gimmick. Just provide a normal refillable/subscription account, then pay out the websites. Isn't that what Flattr or some such company already does? Onboarding customers with Bitcoin is a sure way to avoid making money. You could pay out on the backend with BTC but that's a minor detail. With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. So they're almost c…

Yes, and they take a 15% cut for doing so.

(Bitcoin was supposed to support disintermediation, but it hasn't worked out that way. So was the Internet, yet now half of all traffic goes through Google or Facebook.)

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#78

Post by tveita »

wyager wrote: post #64
MichaelGG wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's Bitcoin have to do with it? Seems like that's a gimmick. Just provide a normal refillable/subscription account, then pay out the websites. Isn't that what Flattr or some such company already does? Onboarding customers with Bitcoin is a sure way to avoid making money. You could pay out on the backend with BTC but that's a minor detail. With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. So they're almost c…

> With current Bitcoin you can't even do micropayments. False. https://bitcoinj.github.io/working-with-micropayments

This seems to be a protocol to coalesce multiple payments between a single sender and receiver, provided that the sender is willing to commit money up front. It does nothing for the case where a single sender wants to send one-time payments to multiple receivers, nor the case where many individual senders want to send to one receiver. In those cases it would only add overhead.

In the case of Brave it doesn't help them much since there is no real-time requirement, so they could accomplish the same by increasing the time between payouts. With some engineering they should be able to support literally thousands of users before they need to take everything off-chain.

Re: ‘Bitcoin Browser’ Brave Raises $4.5M, Readies for 1.0 Launch

#79

Post by jcoffland »

st3v3r wrote: post #65
jcoffland wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how there is any honesty in watching ads. You seem to be implying that I, as an Internet user, have agreed to view ads in return for content and that I'm being dishonest by not viewing the ads. I believe the reverse is true. Content providers promise content via hyperlinked text instead they dishonestly deliver content plus ads, something I did not agree to.

I cannot agree to this. Your entire premise rests upon the idea that these people are creating content for you for free. That you are entitled to someone else's work for free.

Is my attention worth nothing? Are my contributions in the form of comments without value? Regardless I never agreed to view ads in trade for access to content and to be completely fair it was not offered to me in this way.

The usual offer is along the lines of "hey click this link you will like what you find there." This is a far cry from, "view these ads and we will provided you with content."

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