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The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

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11–20 of 76 posts

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, of course, the genocide of Native Americans - which was done by self proclaimed Christians.

Doesn't refute my point that the fact that Christians as well as "Christians" oppressed the Indians were mostly coincidental; had Europeans been atheists the results would have likely been very much worse for the natives.

The burden of proof for your statement lacks about 2000 years of history

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't refute my point that the fact that Christians as well as "Christians" oppressed the Indians were mostly coincidental; had Europeans been atheists the results would have likely been very much worse for the natives.

I would love to know why you think atheists would have been worse.

Because of evidence from atheist leaders from the French reign of terror through all communist madmen until today. No religion, not even if you count Hitler religios (dubious claim in the first place I'd say) comes close to Mao and Stalin.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't refute my point that the fact that Christians as well as "Christians" oppressed the Indians were mostly coincidental; had Europeans been atheists the results would have likely been very much worse for the natives.

I would love to know why you think atheists would have been worse.

[deleted]

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to know why you think atheists would have been worse.

Because of evidence from atheist leaders from the French reign of terror through all communist madmen until today. No religion, not even if you count Hitler religios (dubious claim in the first place I'd say) comes close to Mao and Stalin.

I'd say the Taiping Rebellion was just as bad. When you consider that they didn't have access to the sort of industrialized death that people on your list did, I'd say it was much worse.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of evidence from atheist leaders from the French reign of terror through all communist madmen until today. No religion, not even if you count Hitler religios (dubious claim in the first place I'd say) comes close to Mao and Stalin.

I'd say the Taiping Rebellion was just as bad. When you consider that they didn't have access to the sort of industrialized death that people on your list did, I'd say it was much worse.

TIL. Upvoted.

Still hard to beat 20th century communist atheists in efficiently killing off their own populations or French revolutionaries in being creatively evil.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the Taiping Rebellion was just as bad. When you consider that they didn't have access to the sort of industrialized death that people on your list did, I'd say it was much worse.

TIL. Upvoted. Still hard to beat 20th century communist atheists in efficiently killing off their own populations or French revolutionaries in being creatively evil.

I would say that nothing beats the genocide of the Americas for sheer scope, numbers, duration, and cultural loss. All of your examples ended in a decade or two, that lasted centuries.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Please cite your statistical evidence. 2) Non-christian does not mean non-religious. Indigenous communities the world over have their own religions.

> 1) Please cite your statistical evidence. Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot; all of them worse than everything even the Catholic church ever did.

At least the four of them didn't invade a land and massacre locals.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#18

I've always been upset at how those of us in the indigenous communities cling to Christianity as some absolving attribute. Land stolen, dignity stolen, labor stolen, and for some reason we seek refuge in a religion that was largely imposed on us.

It's not just you; happens the world over. Phillipines, Africa ... nearly all colonized peoples - if not in "religion", then in culture and language.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't refute my point that the fact that Christians as well as "Christians" oppressed the Indians were mostly coincidental; had Europeans been atheists the results would have likely been very much worse for the natives.

I would love to know why you think atheists would have been worse.

Catholics (and especially Jesuits) were given the task of baptizing natives and turning them into Christians. The church often came into conflict with the ruling class over their treatment. Other Christian churches often had the same obligations.

Re: The Last Florida Indians Will Now Die: The Westward Plight of the Apalachee

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Please cite your statistical evidence. Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot; all of them worse than everything even the Catholic church ever did.

At least the four of them didn't invade a land and massacre locals.

Yeah, Stalin was a sweetheart to the neighbors.
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