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Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

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Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#161

Post by tomp »

gizmo wrote: post #160
tomp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a wrong term. "Patriarchy" means a system where women are owned by men (husbands, fathers, brothers), cannot own property, etc. The only reason why feminists chose this term to describe the current social order (which is clearly not a patriarchy in the literal sense) is to elicit negative emotions.

Language evolves so words take on new meanings all the time. It's tedious to invent new words for everything, so you have to use context to figure out which definition is being used. This is completely standard, so I don't see why this is suddenly a problem when it comes to feminist terminology. Today's society is one where men make most of the laws, own most of the property, earn most of the money, commit the most v…

Most of those points are moot. Women are > 50% of the population, so they could choose different lawmakers. Men work more, so it seems fair that they earn more money. More violence is caused by biology so we can't really help that (consequently, men also receive the majority of punishment), but statistics say that (1) men are also more often victims of violence, and (2) e.g. in relationships, violence is equally likely, but women get hurt more (which is kind of obvious, as men are stronger). I don't agree that men set most behavioral norms - if anything, I'd say that a lot of media is influenced by women and catered to women's desires. Your remark about whites is unnecessarily racist, whites are the original setlers of "the West" and still the majority of the population (but e.g. in Asia, most positions of power are held by ... drum roll please ... Asians!).

The only valid point is ownership of property, and I agree with it - although I don't want it to be more fairly distributed across sex, but rather across the whole population (the fact that owners are the 1% gives them much more power than the fact that they're white).

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#162

Post by camelNotation »

koolba wrote: post #2

> The big factor, Harvard sociology professor Alexandra Killewald found, is the husband's employment status. For the past four decades, she discovered, husbands who aren’t employed full time have a 3.3 percent chance of getting divorced in any given year, compared with 2.5 percent for husbands employed full time. In other words, their marriages are one-third more likely to break up. Interesting. I'd be curious to see…

3.3 percent is still very, very small. That's encouraging.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#163

Post by JamesBarney »

honkhonkpants wrote: post #95
rhino369 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the average for all marriages, but certain groups account for a disproportionate amount of divorces. The rate is a lot lower if you take out groups like that: under 20 when married, shotgun weddings, the already divorced, poorly educated, etc. IIRC, latinos who marry under the age 18 have an 80% 5-year divorce rate. I'd heard people say a 20% lifetime chance of divorce if you are a middle class, educated, non-di…

But it's not just the uneducated that have high divorce rates. When I worked on Wall Street people there referred to their first wife as "my first wife" ... when they were still married to her! The expectation that everyone at the firm would eventually burn through 2 or 3 spouses was bizarre to me.

It doesn't seem that bizarre. If I called my current wife my first wife I doubt I'd still be on wife one.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#164

Post by klipt »

ethanbond wrote: post #157
oldmanjay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a vast difference between ridiculing something and not accepting it on faith solely because very passionate people make assertions about it.

Sure, but that's my point. I think a lot of men on here have probably felt this effect. If it's not from "the patriarchy," or something similar by a different name, then what is it from? You don't have to think that, say, women's fashion changes faster than men's fashion because "the patriarchy!" , but it takes some serious aloofness not to see that male dominance in society trickles down to some very strange places…

I think plenty of people agree that Traditional Gender Roles cause problems for men and women who don't conform to them. But not everyone agrees that Traditional Genders Roles should be called "the patriarchy", because that has connotations that men (even the men being hurt by Traditional Gender Roles) are in control, which feels like blaming the victim.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#165

Post by zaroth »

makomk wrote: post #151
zaroth wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During a marriage, spouses share equally the family income even if one spouse is actually earning more than the other. At the time of separation, the estate is valued and then split equally. From that point forward these two people have chosen to part ways. They no longer rely on each other or are bound to each other. They are two individuals existing independently in the world. But a man is expected to pay the woman…

Not even necessarily a percentage of actual income either - it can be a percentage of the income the courts think the ex-husband should be earning, because there's this idea that men who are unemployed or underemployed, or even just self-employed and not doing as well as before, are doing it to screw their ex-wife out of the money they should be earning for her. (Little details like the entire industry they were empl…

Reading news articles of judges telling 67 year old men to "just get a job" was pretty eye opening. [1]

MA passed an alimony reform act specifying that alimony should cease at full retirement age. The courts reinterpreted it to only apply prospectively to agreements after the law was enacted, when the clear meaning was that it should apply to all alimony. [2] These are the economic consequences.

[1] - https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/style/2013/10/19/new-s... [2] - https://www.divorcelawmonitor.com/2015/02/articles/alimony-a...

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#166

Post by themaninthedark »

faddat wrote: post #140
drumdance wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen similar numbers. I'd be curious to see how becoming an entrepreneur affects this. Practically every entrepreneur I know over the age of 40 has divorced.

Entrepeneurship killed a significant relationship of mine. It was entirely about money, she felt that I should continue to pursue my former profession, which provided meager, but stable income. I was thinking about her and my future, which would require more than meager, stable income could provide. Society hates entrepreneurship and that is why it is not a popular track: you need really thick skin to pursue it.

It's not about the money or lack of but the risk vs reward. Most males are risk takers where as most females are risk adverse(the why is many fold and not just limited to humans or even mammals).

My wife would hate it if I wanted to start a company, if she couldn't see a solid plan. If she could see the opportunity but more importantly the roadmap she would be on board.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#167

Post by zeofig »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #113

If we realize that the legal system has made the wife essentially a stockholder who is entitled to a stream of dividends from her marriage, and who has a right to sell when she sees fit, it's no surprise that women choose to sell when there is a sustained decline in earnings.

I used to be bothered by lots of stuff. All the dying, the diseased, the suffering, the doomed... Luckily, this is all just a product of our political system, and if you have a problem with that then you're quite simply a goddamn communist.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#168

Post by makomk »

ethanbond wrote: post #155
tomp wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN ridicules the notion of patriarchy because the word itself implies it's somehow men's fault. Which it isn't. Social toles are enforced by most of the society, so we might as well call it "matriarchy", but that would piss feminists off, so we don't.

I don't think there's that implication at all. I think what's happening is that this component of patriarchy isn't really a rallying point for many people. That is, there are a lot of people who are vocally upset about other components of patriarchy in which men actually are the primary antagonists, e.g. rape culture. That does not, however, imply that man are the antagonists, nor that women are the victims of every…

What's happening is that, as you point out, people who claim to be fighting the patriarchy are not in fact interested in fighting against problems where men are the ones being hurt rather than the antagonists. However, they lump both categories together under one "patriarchy" label as a way of demanding that they be treated as though they were tackling both, arguing that because men's problems are caused by the patriarchy and they're attacking it, they're the ones really trying to solve those problems.

In fact, I've seen them go even further and accuse people who make a fuss those problems of being the ones who don't actually care about them, because if they really cared they'd recognise that feminism was the movement that was actually trying to solve those problems and copy its approach of refusing to do anything about them. That, in fact, this proves that said activists are misogynists who are just out to attack feminism.

Re: Harvard Study: Biggest Factor in Divorce Is Husband's Employment Status

#169

Post by internaut »

ethanbond wrote: post #156
tomp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a wrong term. "Patriarchy" means a system where women are owned by men (husbands, fathers, brothers), cannot own property, etc. The only reason why feminists chose this term to describe the current social order (which is clearly not a patriarchy in the literal sense) is to elicit negative emotions.

Uh, no it doesn't. Patriarchal societies are ones where elder males are the heads of households (generally true) and descent (such as surnames) are passed through the males (generally true). There are matriarchal societies – including many Native American ones. Those are called matriarchal societies. They're notably different from what we have. I think they're less common today than they ever have been, but patriarch…

What society is the Sikh?

Women are surnamed Kaur (princess) and the men are surnamed Singh (lion).

Patriarchal and matriarchal?

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