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Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

reuters.com

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Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#61

Post by omginternets »

scarmig wrote: post #58
gst wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the problem is that most sides in the discussion don't propose any viable solutions: On one side there are the climate change deniers (and the people who don't care about it). They are fine to continue business as usual. On the other side there are the people who are concerned about climate change. But instead of agreeing to effective solutions (compromises) that allow us to somewhat mitigate global warming (such…

I'm all for nuclear. Among people who want to mitigate climate change, there's no more dislike of nuclear than among public at large (which is to say, too much, but not an exceptional amount). The biggest issue with nuclear is that it, by itself, is entirely insufficient to deal with the problem. And the best policy solutions to climate change--namely, a refundable carbon tax--would themselves encourage the prolifera…

I'm all for nuclear in the short-term, but in the long-term it's just substituting one problem for another.

I don't see how we can possibly break out of this cycle without revisiting the notion of an infinite-growth economy. Until we curb human population and energy consumption, we'll continue sprinting from dead-end to dead-end.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#62

Post by pif »

mikekchar wrote: post #46
pif wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I up-voted you because I really appreciated the concept and the form, but... > I would work very hard to learn how to be happy without apples (or at least with a tiny amount of apples). The problem is: with no apples, you can't be as happy as with apples. At least, not until the others are enjoying their apples and share the negative sides with you. It's the usual tragedy of the common, when anybody could be happier…

Actually, I can. Or perhaps not with no apples. But, I certainly use less apples... er energy... than I used to. By a lot, and I'm much happier. Warning, past this point you may think I'm a lunatic. I really am trying to see what works and what doesn't work. I've been really surprised at how much stuff I really don't want once I've gotten rid of it. I don't have a car. I hang my clothes on a line (I even went a year…

> I really am happier as a result of what I'm doing.

I'm sincerely glad for you, but how much of your current happiness comes from the challenge that you posed yourself and you won? In other terms, how much effort are you putting every day in your (fully respectable) cause?

> Can everybody be as happy as me with as little as me? I'm not sure.

Me neither. It looks to me as you chose to be happier via ecology. Most people have already chosen how they wish to be happier, and giving up cheap energy is just a huge roadblock for them.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#63

Post by yequalsx »

gst wrote: post #40
cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

IMO the problem is that most sides in the discussion don't propose any viable solutions: On one side there are the climate change deniers (and the people who don't care about it). They are fine to continue business as usual. On the other side there are the people who are concerned about climate change. But instead of agreeing to effective solutions (compromises) that allow us to somewhat mitigate global warming (such…

The only viable, realistic solution is for people to stop having as many children as they currently do. The population of the planet is beyond carrying capacity at current levels of consumption.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#64

Post by gaius »

yequalsx wrote: post #63
gst wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the problem is that most sides in the discussion don't propose any viable solutions: On one side there are the climate change deniers (and the people who don't care about it). They are fine to continue business as usual. On the other side there are the people who are concerned about climate change. But instead of agreeing to effective solutions (compromises) that allow us to somewhat mitigate global warming (such…

The only viable, realistic solution is for people to stop having as many children as they currently do. The population of the planet is beyond carrying capacity at current levels of consumption.

Making the "save the world for my kids" argument particularly ironic.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#66

Post by kodroid »

So, what can be done? I posted this question on Reddit ages ago with no replys, would be interesting to hear anyone on heres opinion on it...

> Hi all, Im sure there are many reasons why this would not work but thought would be good to get some input. I came across this article about creating carbon fibre from atmospheric carbon https://www.technologyreview.com/s/540706/researcher-demonst... and as carbon fibre utilising 3d printers now exist like https://markforged.com/product/mark-one-composite-3d-printer... this seems like something with amazing potential. Of course one of the main challenges is the energy needed to operated such a machine - but in the right places (which im guessing is windy as the carbon pulling machine needs high air exposure anyway) renewable forms of energy could maybe be used? In a daydream I thought it would be amazing to replace steels and plastics with atmospheric carbon. Reduce oil dependency, lower carbon footprint (even thought its not putting it back in the ground it seems like a good second), created a fantastic building element. Anyhow - would be great to hear why this wont (or would!) work from someone who knows more than me about this stuff. :)

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#67

Post by pif »

pietrofmaggi wrote: post #48
pif wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that many people agree with you in principle, but when they start considering the cost in terms of lifestyle, than the followers start to vanish.

"Cost in terms of lifestyle" compared to what? there're studies (e.g. this report from citybank[0]) that shows that inaction is actually more expensive, taking into account the cost of the climate change disasters... Seems to me that people believe that doing nothing we will keep living in the same way. Sorry to have to wake you up. Doing nothing will screw up the planet and your (and mine) "lifestyle". The article r…

> "Cost in terms of lifestyle" compared to what? there're studies (that shows that inaction is actually more expensive

Please, keep in mind that renouncing to your car will not prevent you from breathing smoke, unless many people around you do the same. Reducing to the bare minimum your electricity consumption will not lower the slice of your taxes devoted to dealing with global warming, unless many people around you do the same. Et cetera...

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#68

Post by Chathamization »

gst wrote: post #40
cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

IMO the problem is that most sides in the discussion don't propose any viable solutions: On one side there are the climate change deniers (and the people who don't care about it). They are fine to continue business as usual. On the other side there are the people who are concerned about climate change. But instead of agreeing to effective solutions (compromises) that allow us to somewhat mitigate global warming (such…

Part of the problem is that there's a certain group of people who are more interested in pushing their pet solutions than they are in pushing effective solutions. Most of the analyses I've read say that stuff like nuclear and geothermal aren't going to be major components of the fight against climate change.

For nuclear specifically, a mass roll out of nuclear plants is simply too difficult - cost, production bottlenecks, public opposition, production time and delays, etc. Almost no new plants are being built in the U.S. currently - you can't easily go from that to replacing a large percentage of the power system with nuclear plants.

I'm not sure how any reasonable person could see nuclear as being one of the more viable or effective solutions (particularly when compared to low-hanging fruit like increased energy efficiency).

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#69

Post by blondie9x »

We all know by now CO2 and CH4 leads to a warmer planet. We also know what's driving greenhouse gas levels to rise across Earth. Contributors are deforestation, intensive animal farming, and primarily the combustion of carbon fossil fuels like coal, tar sands, oil, natural gas etc. But here is the underlying problem, despite us knowing how bad things are, (97+% of scientists who study this field agree we are causing the planet's climate to shift away from the temperate climate we thrived in) not enough is being done at present to truly solve the problem.

What really is disheartening and what no one in the media and government is talking about is how in 2015 CO2 levels rose by the largest amount in human recorded history. 3.05 PPM http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/gr.html We are being lied to and mislead by our governments that uniform actions are being performed to save the planet for the future of man. Vested interests in the fossil fuel industry continue to drive climate change. Yes, solar and wind energy is starting to become incredibly efficient and cheap but not enough of it is coming online in proportion to fossil fuel burning that persists and is also installed annually. If we do not rally against it, our ability to live on this planet is at stake. The lives of our posterity are also at risk because of the burning. It will not be until we take extreme actions not on a country level but as humanity together that we will slow the burning and save ourselves.

What are these actions you might ask that will actually be effective? These can range from banning fossil fuels entirely, global carbon pricing system, banning deforestation, changing human diets, extreme uniform investment in renewable energy and potentially fourth generation nuclear reactors, more funding for developing nations to install alternative energy sources, and to shift the transportation grid towards sustainability.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#70

Post by nathan_f77 »

Noseshine wrote: post #33
LeanderK wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not engage actively in an NGO fighting to battle climate change? Most of them have developed ties to the government where they can really push for a certain agenda and have a realistic chance of success. Most of the major cities (in the west, idk about the other parts of the world) have their own small NGOs, but there is always greenpeace etc. They need support on the streets, but also help with their infrastruct…

That doesn't really answer the question though. You merely named a proxy - what you can do is support that other guy . It doesn't say what that other guy - the NGO - is supposed to do, it merely presupposes that the NGOs know what they are doing, without saying anything about what that is in concrete terms. I don't consider anything along the lines of "raising awareness" an answer, so just increasing the size of the…

Raising awareness of climate change is probably one of the most important things we can do right now.

An incredibly large percentage of the world's population simply doesn't believe that climate change is a real problem, and then they vote for leaders who are also climate change deniers (or leaders who call it a Chinese conspiracy).

It's a real problem.

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