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Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

reuters.com

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Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#21

Post by madaxe_again »

HerpDerpLerp wrote: post #18
mikekchar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I said that apples were the cause of global warming and that to avoid catastrophe you had to avoid eating apples it wouldn't worry you nearly as much, would it? I mean apples are delicious, but they aren't worth the misery that extreme weather will inflict on us. There are also a lot of people who depend on apple production to make a living. We would have to find some way for them to transition to something else f…

A confounding factor is that there is apples in a lot of things you may not think of, and somethings use apples in their production... even if you never see the apples yourself.

And even some products which supposedly provide free apples are made with apples, and require themselves to be used beyond their serviceable lifetime to provide more apples than went into making them.

In short, we either need a radical new source of apples, or we need to find a way to use far fewer apples.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#22

Post by pif »

mikekchar wrote: post #13
cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

If I said that apples were the cause of global warming and that to avoid catastrophe you had to avoid eating apples it wouldn't worry you nearly as much, would it? I mean apples are delicious, but they aren't worth the misery that extreme weather will inflict on us. There are also a lot of people who depend on apple production to make a living. We would have to find some way for them to transition to something else f…

I up-voted you because I really appreciated the concept and the form, but...

> I would work very hard to learn how to be happy without apples (or at least with a tiny amount of apples).

The problem is: with no apples, you can't be as happy as with apples. At least, not until the others are enjoying their apples and share the negative sides with you. It's the usual tragedy of the common, when anybody could be happier if (and only if) everybody ate less apples.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#23

Post by chronic81 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #20
cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

I don't wish to sound defeatist, but I fear that we've already passed the point of no return for avoiding Very Serious consequences. We have fed massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere over the past decade, more than any decade in the past, and our rate of emission continues to increase. Admittedly the double delta (the rate of change of the rate of change) has now gone negative, but the fact remains that an en…

I didn't read your comment but, why should I care about climate change. I agree it is real, but I simply would rather spend time living a time efficient lifestyle.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#24

Post by [deleted] »

cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#25

Post by ralfd »

madaxe_again wrote: post #20
cconcepts wrote: post #9

I have no doubt that climate change is a problem. I have kids, I dont want to give them a hospital pass. I've tried to stop living such a carbon dependant lifestyle but I look outside and my efforts feel futile. How do I REALLY do something about this other than a few pretentious yet barely discomforting lifestyle changes and the odd empassioned few sentences at dinner parties? Start pushing for a carbon tax? Start a…

I don't wish to sound defeatist, but I fear that we've already passed the point of no return for avoiding Very Serious consequences. We have fed massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere over the past decade, more than any decade in the past, and our rate of emission continues to increase. Admittedly the double delta (the rate of change of the rate of change) has now gone negative, but the fact remains that an en…

> more than any decade in the past, > Humans have survived ice ages - civilisations and societies have not, to our knowledge - humans will likely survive this - but this civilisation - who knows.

From a historic perspective the CO2 were vastly higher for hundred of millions of years. Climate change will be a challenge (sea level rise for Calcutta, New York etc) but I doubt it will be a doomsday scenario.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#26

Post by pif »

madaxe_again wrote: post #21
HerpDerpLerp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A confounding factor is that there is apples in a lot of things you may not think of, and somethings use apples in their production... even if you never see the apples yourself.

And even some products which supposedly provide free apples are made with apples, and require themselves to be used beyond their serviceable lifetime to provide more apples than went into making them. In short, we either need a radical new source of apples, or we need to find a way to use far fewer apples.

> we either need a radical new source of apples, or we need to find a way to use far fewer apples.

I'm afraid that in no way we can have the second without the first one. People switched to fossil fuels because life was way too much easier with them, and no climate change can convince us to go back unless we find another big source of cheap energy or, simply, we exhaust the oil fields.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#27

Post by zamalek »

threeseed wrote: post #10

It seems pretty clear to me what is going to happen over the coming century. The world has turned a blind eye to the millions dying from starvation and preventable disease. And will do so again when tens to hundreds of millions die from the effects of climate change e.g. starvation, flooding, heat waves etc. And as the disaffected and left behind turn to terrorist acts to vent their frustration the rest of humanity w…

At times I hope that climate change deniers in positions of power are held accountable for crimes against the human race; however, in the face of what I would anticipate to be the global living conditions justice would seem pointless.

We can only hope that it becomes just bad enough to scare everyone[1], but no worse (i.e. methane pockets). If it's already "worse" geoengineering is the only thing that can save us because it's a runaway process, cutting carbon emissions would only delay the inevitable. We're not seeing much in the way of investment into that final pocket ace, though, at least Alphabet had a shot at it.

[1]: http://traveller24.news24.com/News/Alerts/watch-another-torn...

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#29

Post by pif »

danieltillett wrote: post #15

When are we going to stop f *ing around and start doing something serious? Let's just buy off the carbon lobby (oil/coal/gas owners) and get on with a crash program of energy decarbonisation.

I think that many people agree with you in principle, but when they start considering the cost in terms of lifestyle, than the followers start to vanish.

Re: Scientists caught off-guard by record temperatures linked to climate change

#30

Post by madaxe_again »

ralfd wrote: post #25
madaxe_again wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't wish to sound defeatist, but I fear that we've already passed the point of no return for avoiding Very Serious consequences. We have fed massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere over the past decade, more than any decade in the past, and our rate of emission continues to increase. Admittedly the double delta (the rate of change of the rate of change) has now gone negative, but the fact remains that an en…

> more than any decade in the past, > Humans have survived ice ages - civilisations and societies have not, to our knowledge - humans will likely survive this - but this civilisation - who knows. From a historic perspective the CO2 were vastly higher for hundred of millions of years. Climate change will be a challenge (sea level rise for Calcutta, New York etc) but I doubt it will be a doomsday scenario.

Our civilisation is a chaotically stable system - but we have already seen what even phantasmic disruption (i.e. the subprime triggered global crash) can cause, and we are already seeing the tremors of political unstability in nations where such a thing seemed unthinkable only a few years ago - and these things do not happen in a vacuum.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't require every human, every bureaucrat, every organ of state power to be utterly destroyed to bring about societal collapse - it actually requires rather little for affairs to descend into chaos. This is why we see governments investing increasingly in security apparatuses, as they realise that maintaining control now and in the future requires a firmer grasp than they have maintained. The US DoD saw climate change as a grave threat to national security over a decade ago, and they still do now. If you end up with mass migration from flooded areas, displaced people, you have crime and a need for greater enforcement - if you add food shortages to the mix, you end up with starving desperate people - again, not a majority, but enough to strain a system that operates within fine tolerances beyond its limits.

I don't think that we're going to see the annihilation of the species, I don't think we're going to see the annihilation of all technological society or anything of the sort - but I don't think that we will survive quite as we do now, and I think it's going to be a pretty rough ride from here to wherever we're going.

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