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The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

nicholaswindsorhoward.com

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Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#391

Post by stouset »

tacon wrote: post #282
zaphoyd wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No need to scroll, you can check just by resting fingers on the touchpad (except in Chrome) and look at the scrollbars. Never knew this, really handy, thanks! Any idea if it is possible on a magic mouse? or only the trackpads?

And there you have demonstrated the entire thesis of the original article.

Except it's infinitely easier to slightly drag your hands on the trackpad your fingers are already on, than to glance over at the side of a window, identify a scroll bar, and glance back to the content you were viewing.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#392

Post by shopkins »

Animats wrote: post #381

If you give up skeuomorphism, you have no model for icons. You could have every icon be a smartphone, but that won't help. Without some real-world basis, icons are just abstract shapes. Text boxes might be better. At least you don't need an icon dictionary. Everything now has to be mobile-friendly, which means 1) fat fingers, and 2) you can't see the thing you're touching. "Mouse-over" for more info is not meaningful…

> "Mouse-over" for more info is not meaningful for touchscreens. So icons can't have explanations.

One might argue that the icons should explain themselves.

> Whatever happened to Google's "material design"?

You obviously don't use Android or many of Google's new web sites.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#393

Post by verisimilidude »

stcredzero wrote: post #382
verisimilidude wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skeuomorphism doesn't make sense anymore when the real world items it's based on are vanishing. Does that really matter? A perfect case in point was the old Pages icon in OS X: a quill pen in front of a cup of ink. Do you know any person who has ever used a pen like that in real life? Have you ever even seen a pen like that? I'm willing to guess not. But everyone still recognized the contents of that icon, and corr…

Have you ever even seen a pen like that? I'm willing to guess not. But everyone still recognized the contents of that icon, and correctly inferred that the app was for writing things. So what you're saying is that we should have skeuomorphism, but mostly with things we've seen in TV shows and movies, especially period ones. This would tend to make everything look like stuff from pirate/fantasy/sci-fi/superhero movies…

I don't want to make a strong case for or against any specific skeuomorphist style. I'm just arguing that there's a place for it in modern UIs if done well, and that I don't find it inherently bad to use "extinct objects" as metaphors.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#394

Post by zer0defex »

ParadoxOryx wrote: post #319
zer0defex wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly why I make mine transparent: http://imgur.com/a/AXNy9 Contrary to popular belief these days, contrast is not the enemy.

How'd you make it transparent?

cDock: http://w0lfschild.github.io/app_cDock.html

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#395

Post by zer0defex »

rmwaite wrote: post #353
zer0defex wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly why I make mine transparent: http://imgur.com/a/AXNy9 Contrary to popular belief these days, contrast is not the enemy.

What app is that you have the checklist in?

Just the built-in apple notes app - starting with El Capitan it has checklists now

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#396

Post by shopkins »

7Z7 wrote: post #211
vidoc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> icons still dont make sense Couldn't agree more, My last IOS device was the Iphone 3G, so I kind of lost touch with IOS. Recently found myself trying to help my mom print an email on her Ipad, and felt quiet disarmed as none of those icons made any sense at all! Ended up clicking icons to see what happens, one in particular, was apparently deleting messages, and I have yet to understand what the icon symbol was all…

That's odd, in the latest iOS, all of the options I can see for deleting messages are accessed via the word "Delete"; one of which is on a red background (swipe conversation left). The other two require three steps with clear messaging/iconography: (Edit, select, Delete), or (long-tap message, more..., hit the Trashcan icon or hit "Delete All"). Perhaps it was an older version.

> swipe conversation left

iOS's heavy reliance on this gesture is a great example of how bad it's gotten. Unlike drawers, which usually have some kind of pullable tab, or reorderable items in a list, which have little icons indicating grabbable-ness, there is no visual cue that items can be swiped left. If you've never used iOS before, you have no way to delete important things unless you've been instructed how to from friends or iPhone-using ancestors.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#397

Post by dragonwriter »

Animats wrote: post #381

If you give up skeuomorphism, you have no model for icons. You could have every icon be a smartphone, but that won't help. Without some real-world basis, icons are just abstract shapes. Text boxes might be better. At least you don't need an icon dictionary. Everything now has to be mobile-friendly, which means 1) fat fingers, and 2) you can't see the thing you're touching. "Mouse-over" for more info is not meaningful…

> "Mouse-over" for more info is not meaningful for touchscreens. So icons can't have explanations.

I suspect the period of not having a decent UI for surfacing alt-text (on web) or equivalent help for native apps on mobile devices is probably not going to extend long into the future. I don't know what the UI convention will be (gaze tracking? light-touch with pressure sensitive screens? some gesture?). Touch UIs are (despite being ubiquitous with the explosion of the last decade) still relatively immature.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#398

Post by mark-r »

I think people miss the purpose of icons. To be effective, they need to be distinguishable and memorable so that you can find them when needed. If I need to find something that I'm not familiar with, I'm more likely to use a text label to figure it out than to try to guess by the picture. An ideal icon would have a lot in common with an ideal logo.

The current trends are somewhat troubling. Removing color makes an icon less distinguishable, and changing icons yearly makes them less memorable. The reason the floppy disk icon is still useful so many years after it stopped being relevant is because it hasn't changed.

I do miss the richness of imagery that skeumorphism provided, I find it more visually appealing than the abstract flat look. I realize this is a matter of opinion though. How ironic that as enhanced displays allow for more realistic renditions than ever, the trend is to move away from realism.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#399

Post by sopooneo »

spoondan wrote: post #385
emodendroket wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Young users today essentially just know the image of a floppy disc as "the save button" without any skeuomorphic rationale backing it up. Yeah, but so what? It is, nevertheless, recognizable to nearly everyone. In a world where cars still advertise their "horsepower" and pencils have graphite compound "leads" we can probably live with an icon that is well understood but whose original referent is no longer familiar…

The icon is recognizable because younger people learn the weird boxy icon means save. Even with an explanation of the icon's origins, for the younger generation, the icon is recognizable but not meaningful . Can we devise a more meaningful icon? Can we break with convention and just choose a different icon that's recognizable but more aesthetically pleasing or consistent with our style guides, even if it's still mean…

I bet when you see a red octagon, you just think of it as a thing on the side of the road that means "stop", don't you? But despite your not knowing its origin, not knowing why it means stop, it still works well right?

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#400

Post by marssaxman »

spoondan wrote: post #385
emodendroket wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Young users today essentially just know the image of a floppy disc as "the save button" without any skeuomorphic rationale backing it up. Yeah, but so what? It is, nevertheless, recognizable to nearly everyone. In a world where cars still advertise their "horsepower" and pencils have graphite compound "leads" we can probably live with an icon that is well understood but whose original referent is no longer familiar…

The icon is recognizable because younger people learn the weird boxy icon means save. Even with an explanation of the icon's origins, for the younger generation, the icon is recognizable but not meaningful . Can we devise a more meaningful icon? Can we break with convention and just choose a different icon that's recognizable but more aesthetically pleasing or consistent with our style guides, even if it's still mean…

What, you really think kids have no idea what floppy disks are? Of course they do! They're young, not stupid. It's not as hard as you're making it sound.

Language is full of dead metaphor. Words and symbols have meaning because they have been given meaning; most of the associations might as well be arbitrary. Doesn't matter; humans are very good at recognizing these associations and deriving the intent.

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