Reddit is still in turmoil • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#381

Post by toss1941 » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

FilterSweep wrote: post #350

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #337

Reddit is a crossroads: It's an intersection between the cultures of 4chan (which is in itself an intersection of japanese and american sensibilities), and the culture of usenet, and internet forums, and a dozen other cultures besides. None of these cultures handle censorship well. They all originated in an environment where, to some extent, you could say whatever the hell you like. Many of Reddit's early users came…

> Bans, yes, people get punished for breaking the rules. But having your posts quietly vanish without warning? This comment particularly stuck out to me. Very few other communication platforms of Reddit's ilk will go through the process of shadowbanning users - that is - the user still has full functionality of the site, however their comments are not visible to other users; only themselves. To an unknowing user, it…

If only game makers would build this kind of system into their Anti-cheats, make the cheater think for as long as possible they are ruining other people's day only to find out that the last hour has been against AI with canned outrage responses from the AI.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#382

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

FilterSweep wrote: post #350

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #337

Reddit is a crossroads: It's an intersection between the cultures of 4chan (which is in itself an intersection of japanese and american sensibilities), and the culture of usenet, and internet forums, and a dozen other cultures besides. None of these cultures handle censorship well. They all originated in an environment where, to some extent, you could say whatever the hell you like. Many of Reddit's early users came…

> Bans, yes, people get punished for breaking the rules. But having your posts quietly vanish without warning? This comment particularly stuck out to me. Very few other communication platforms of Reddit's ilk will go through the process of shadowbanning users - that is - the user still has full functionality of the site, however their comments are not visible to other users; only themselves. To an unknowing user, it…

As someone who's run a (small) forum, I completely understand the appeal of shadowbanning. It's incredibly effective if your goal is to make a community a usable place without spending most of your waking hours dealing with trolls and shitbags.

A single person can eat up hours of your time if you attempt to reason with them. They'll create new accounts, they'll use accounts they created a long time ago against this eventuality, they'll make appeals to you and to other users, and they will stir up as much shit as possible.

I've had a person literally call me on the phone to complain that their account was banned.

Shadowbanning means that none of this happens. I check a box, and the collective community can breathe easily, and I can actually sleep. It's an incredible force multiplier.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#383

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

toss1941 wrote: post #381

FilterSweep wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bans, yes, people get punished for breaking the rules. But having your posts quietly vanish without warning? This comment particularly stuck out to me. Very few other communication platforms of Reddit's ilk will go through the process of shadowbanning users - that is - the user still has full functionality of the site, however their comments are not visible to other users; only themselves. To an unknowing user, it…

If only game makers would build this kind of system into their Anti-cheats, make the cheater think for as long as possible they are ruining other people's day only to find out that the last hour has been against AI with canned outrage responses from the AI.

I think most game makers just put cheaters into a cheater-only pool of players.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#384

Post by CaptSpify » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #136

zarriak wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I guess I should say that a part of the design is self censoring, as what one says with anonymity is varying ranges of difference from that which one says when they are sharing it with all of their friends and family.

That's why I personally have self-censored myself from using Facebook at all. I've discovered that there are actually zero things that I want to announce to all my friends and family at once.

I'll partially respectfully-disagree with you: I self-censor myself from FB as well, but there are a ton of things I want to announce to my family and friends at once. However, if they don't care enough to visit my blog to find out what that is, they I don't care if they miss out on the announcement.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#385

Post by cptskippy » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

spaceheeder wrote: post #365

If this is related to the problems at Reddit it is only so tangentially, but my feelings on that site have been very mixed since I deleted my account there. I think that the subreddit structure and making it "a community of communities" showcases both the best and the worst of audience bubbles. At their best, like-minded people share interesting things with each other, build communities, and even form friendships. At…

I find it strange that people refer to Reddit as a social network because I've never looked at it that way. To me it's always been a link aggregator with a social commentary aspect. I've never felt the desire to follow or even remember people there. Unlike other social networks, Reddit has never struck me as a platform for self promotion or attention seeking. Sure there are unsavory subreddits I have no desire to explore, but I generally follow those that center around hobbies or topics that interest me. I removed many of the topic subreddits like news and politics from my feed early on because they tended to be mostly useless posting.

I think in general the way everyone uses social networks is confusing. The focus always seems to be on who is talking and not on what's being said.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#386

Post by a_c_s » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

ythl wrote: post #349

jules wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with reddit isn't the admins, but that people who have managed to become moderators of prominent subreddits censor posts and thousands of rather innocent comments. For example the Orlando terrorist attack was censored from /r/news, and when they later allowed the posts to go through they deleted most of the comments, including all comments talking about the censorship of the previous posts. They even dele…

> This strategy backfired immensely when the Donald Trump subreddit ended up being the only one reporting on the news. Say what you will about republicans, but they often end up being the biggest defenders of constitutional rights. Democrats on the other hand (aka "progressives") are always looking for ways to limit constitutional rights in order to create a "safer society" and stable "social climate". Just look at E…

Depends on which parts of the constitution you look at: freedom of religion (specifically not establishing one over any other), due process, birthright citizenship (14th Amendment) are all things Republicans have attacked lately.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#387

Post by CaptSpify » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #265

twblalock wrote: post #6

I think much of Reddit's problems with its userbase boil down to an early failure to manage expectations. It's pretty clear that the Reddit corporation doesn't want Reddit to be an anything-goes, absolute free speech zone with no moderation or anti-harassment policies -- but that's what the site actually was for many years. Now, when the company cracks down, users think their freedoms are being curtailed. The mistake…

They want to have the cake and eat it. I saw this so many times. First they make it free for all everything goes, then people come and use it and then they start moderation/cencorship to the max. Wikipedia, Stackoverflow, Reddit, etc. It's totally normal and okay for users to feel cheated, because they WERE cheated...

This is what made me angry, and why I left. I think things would have been better if they had openly said "Hey, we were free speech, but we're not anymore. Sorry, but we have to". It would have sucked, and I still probably would have left, but I would also have understood. Instead, they tried to keep holding onto both sides

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#388

Post by spaceheeder » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #385

spaceheeder wrote: post #365

If this is related to the problems at Reddit it is only so tangentially, but my feelings on that site have been very mixed since I deleted my account there. I think that the subreddit structure and making it "a community of communities" showcases both the best and the worst of audience bubbles. At their best, like-minded people share interesting things with each other, build communities, and even form friendships. At…

I find it strange that people refer to Reddit as a social network because I've never looked at it that way. To me it's always been a link aggregator with a social commentary aspect. I've never felt the desire to follow or even remember people there. Unlike other social networks, Reddit has never struck me as a platform for self promotion or attention seeking. Sure there are unsavory subreddits I have no desire to exp…

As soon as you go from clicking the links to regularly submitting or moderating them, the social aspects of the platform assert themselves. And there are a fair number of commenters who engage in that dimension of it willingly.

To me, Facebook isn't a social network as much as it is a chat application. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent use cases.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#389

Post by CaptSpify » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #115

Esau wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what happens when we have truly anonymous free speech, on places such as Reddit, Twitter, and 4Chan, shows that we are nowhere as civilized as we like to think we are.

I have two (opposing) thoughts on that 1. We don't always want to express all our opinions and thoughts among people we know, because they carries significant social cost. So we end up saying a disproportionate amount of those things anonymously online. 2. It used to be that nobody had to listen to the outcasts and the lonely. People we don't enjoy being around. But now they can participate in online forums as much a…

I'll argue on having to listen to them. I'm all for free-speech, no matter how vile it is. I'm also all for self-controlled censorship, and tools to facilitate that. If you don't want to hear, say, racist bullshit, ignore it, and move on. If it becomes too noisy, create a filter, and move on. If it is still too noisy, it's probably a good sign that your not fitting in well with the community.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#390

Post by cptskippy » Fri, Jul 22, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #146

ben_jones wrote: post #143

Reddit is, was, and will for the foreseeable future be, a giant pile of porn. Denial of that fact shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of not only Reddit but the internet as a whole.. I can understand that this idea would be extremely unpleasant to a lot of people. And a slow migration to curated content may seem more wholesome. But it doesn't work that way.

On what metrics are you making that assumption? Most people who use Reddit are going to be hitting the "default" communities, which are about as bland and inoffensive (read: has lowest common denominator appeal) as internet content can possibly get.

I believe he's referring to the definition of porn that most people don't often think of.

"television programs, magazine, books, etc. that are regarded as emphasizing the sensuous or sensational aspects of a nonsexual subject and stimulating a compulsive interest in their audience."

There are plenty of subreddits like r/earthporn that fit this definition. In fact many of the default communities do.