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The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

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Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#91

Post by smcdow »

Maultasche wrote: post #88
xiaoma wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pension payments??? What European business or country would pay pension to an American employee just for having worked there for a few years?

The Netherlands will pay a pension to anyone who lives there past the age of 16. You'll get more money for every year you live there. One year of living there will get you something like 18 euros a month when you retire, but it's definitely more than zero. It's giving back to someone who has lived there and (presumably) has contributed by paying taxes. Someone who as lived there all their life only gets something lik…

Getting a little off topic here, but if you're a US "person" subject to US taxes, then those pension payments can be taxable. http://rsmus.com/what-we-do/services/tax/international-tax-p...

If you google around, you can find stories of long-time ex-pats getting blindsided by the taxes associated with those pensions.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#92

Post by mrfusion »

mhotchen wrote: post #52
jeffbush wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd note that tech pundits and journalists have been saying for 20 years that many US jobs would move to India and other countries, but offshoring, while common, hasn't really made a dent in the US tech sector. It's interesting to think about why.

I set up an offshore team of four in India some years back. Two of the developers ended up being lackluster and let go, but two of them continued on as they were fairly decent. Even so the cultural difference was significant and it was difficult to manage them. I don't think it was their fault, they just had a very different views on what they considered was a completed task, how they went about asking for further re…

What was the cultural issue exactly?

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#93

Post by jakobegger »

Xylakant wrote: post #64
theunixbeard wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why tech salaries in Western Europe were so much lower than the US (exc. Silicon Valley effect). Could it be the proximity to similiar-culture Eastern Europe where inexpensive developers are easily available?

Salaries in the US and Europe cannot easily be compared by the numbers alone. There are factors such as minimum PTO, health insurance, paid sick leave, pension payments, etc. that skew the bare numbers. You'll have to find an US job that has similar benefits as the european job to even be on a somewhat level ground.

Yes. Especially if you have kids. Here in Austria health insurance for kids is free (until they graduate), you get paid maternity leave, Kindergarten and schools are free, college tuition is less than 1000€ per year, and on top of that the state supports you with about 200€ per month for every child.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#94

Post by jeffbush »

goda90 wrote: post #53
jeffbush wrote: post #43

I had to chuckle a little that this mentions Grand Rapids. I grew up there and moved to Silicon Valley 18 years ago. I hated it there: brutal long winters (Google "lake effect"), hot humid summers, mosquitos, and a socially conservative monoculture. I definitely understand people's frustration with the real estate situation around here, but there's more to an area than just jobs and houses.

Some people enjoy the snow, green everywhere, no water restrictions, and less traffic. Sure mosquitos suck, but so does having everything be more expensive. There definitely is more to it than jobs and houses, so I chose to return home to the Midwest to get paid a little less(though not much in terms of cost of living) than I would at a Silicon Valley firm.

Yeah, there are millions of people who live in the midwest who obviously disagree with me. :)

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#95

Post by jeffbush »

cponeill wrote: post #77
jeffbush wrote: post #43

I had to chuckle a little that this mentions Grand Rapids. I grew up there and moved to Silicon Valley 18 years ago. I hated it there: brutal long winters (Google "lake effect"), hot humid summers, mosquitos, and a socially conservative monoculture. I definitely understand people's frustration with the real estate situation around here, but there's more to an area than just jobs and houses.

I also grew up in GR and moved to Seattle a little over 16 years ago. Reading the term "lake effect" cracked me up since it has been so long since I last heard it. Have you been back recently at all? Downtown has a bit more going on but wouldn't want to move back at all. Those winters are brutal.

I haven't been back in seven years. Relatives usually come out to visit me.

I'm too soft now to survive a winter there. :)

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#96

Post by Spooky23 »

Bahamut wrote: post #78
amyjess wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think that's more SoCal (LA/SD) than NorCal (SV). SoCal feels like a giant sprawling suburb with great weather, and NorCal is just cold, expensive, and full of hipsters. Like, there's a very large chance I'll end up moving to SoCal if I'm ever forced to leave Texas (which might actually happen next year), but I have no desire to live in NorCal even if you paid me seven figures.

Cold? I remember at least one of the past two winters, SV was warmer than Dallas. It rarely dips below freezing. It does get cold outside of the Bay Area, but the Bay Area is one of those special areas of California for temperature (along with San Diego).

People's version of cold varies. It's pretty funny though. I was in South Carolina in Novemebr a few years ago and people were wearing down jackets and wool hats -- it was 55!

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#97

Post by toomuchtodo »

randallsquared wrote: post #30
christophilus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, you can live in a beautiful small city like Greenville, SC in walking distance to most or all of your needs, a short drive from great Appalachian hiking, etc. for a very reasonable price. I don't think the choice is necessarily a boolean between big, expensive city life and bumfuck SC life. At least, I hope not, because I'm giving the Greenville, SC thing a try and liking it so far.

I work for remotely for a company in NYC and live in BFSC (Gaffney). I'm also liking it so far. And, as a bonus, my coworkers were excited to find that I live a short drive from REST Fest US, so there's that. :)

Any chance there really is a peach water tower in Gaffney? :D

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#98

Post by easuter »

zappo2938 wrote: post #31
ghaff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it partly depends on how broadly you define "tech hub." If that includes 20-30 places worldwide, I'm not going to violently disagree. If it means Bay Area + Portland + Seattle + ...? Then I will. Especially because "tech" isn't limited to web/social/mobile.

If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. There is no way around it. You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. If you are Marine Biologist you are living in Woods Hole, Monterey, or La Jolla. If you are doing aerospace engineering y…

> I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub.

Haha! Counterexample: practically every programmer in my country.

None of our cities are "software tech hubs" like you'll find in the USA, UK or Germany.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#99

Post by mhotchen »

mrfusion wrote: post #92
mhotchen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I set up an offshore team of four in India some years back. Two of the developers ended up being lackluster and let go, but two of them continued on as they were fairly decent. Even so the cultural difference was significant and it was difficult to manage them. I don't think it was their fault, they just had a very different views on what they considered was a completed task, how they went about asking for further re…

What was the cultural issue exactly?

They wouldn't ask questions or admit that they're struggling with something. I saw a lot of this in the interviews as well, you would ask a question like "do you know what X is" and they would say yes, but then sit in silence. So you probe "well what is it?" and they would go "I'm not completely sure" or just try to make something up. They would sometimes sit for days doing nothing because they didn't understand the ticket.

Another was their definition of done. They would finish a ticket and mark it as resolved as soon as the functionality is partially working. I think because QA is enormously cheap in India they were used to handing things off to QA as soon as possible to save their own time. We didn't have a QA department so that was quite problematic. I started having to include all the edge cases I could think of in the ticket.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong, it was just different, different levels of politeness and views on managing their time. But it was these differences that made things more difficult for everyone involved than I expected. They probably had a lot of issues with my management style as well, although they were too polite to say anything :)

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#100

Post by randallsquared »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #97
randallsquared wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for remotely for a company in NYC and live in BFSC (Gaffney). I'm also liking it so far. And, as a bonus, my coworkers were excited to find that I live a short drive from REST Fest US, so there's that. :)

Any chance there really is a peach water tower in Gaffney? :D

The peachoid does indeed exist, and is as represented in popular media you may have seen on streaming services. :) They actually just repainted it.
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