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Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

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Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#111
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples? Should be pretty easy to find if it is an "extensive history"

of the top of my head, ignoring stuff from this campaign (there are so many things there...): he has settled suits for racial discrimination about not renting to minorities he advocated the death penalty for the since exhonerated "central park 5" in a full page ad in the daily news he was the leader of the "birther" movement against president obama.

Re suits: As far as I know, he was never found guilty in any of those law suits. "Settling" is not an admission of guilt. It could just as easily be the cost/benefit of fighting the lawsuit is not worth it. The government has deep pockets after all.

Re central park 5: Yes, that was a huge blunder(as was that entire case for that matter). Is there any indication it was based on their race, and not the savagery of the crime they were accused of?

Re birther: What does that have to do with race? "American" isn't a race.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#112
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has an extensive history of using racism to divide people for his own benefit.

Examples? Should be pretty easy to find if it is an "extensive history"

NOTE: I think arguments about whether Donald Trump is a racist are a red herring. Obviously not all of Trump's supporters are racist, and any claim that they are is ridiculous and counterproductive. I don't really care if Donald Trump is a racist or not. I have issues with his policies, which is what I think people should be talking about.

Anyway, you asked for examples of situations where Trump has encouraged racial division, so I'm going to try to present some examples without any name-calling or hyperbole.

In addition to Gonzalo Curiel, he's made a few other remarks to which some people have taken offense.

The republican party is mostly pro-legal immigration. The official party stance is that legal immigration is good for business and increases the supply of labor. Trump distinguished himself early on in the primary by supporting a border wall between the US and Mexico. To explain his position, he stated that "Mexico is not sending us their best people." He went on to say that many people illegally crossing the border are rapists and murderers. Undoubtedly some people who illegally cross the border have committed such offenses, but it seems unlikely that a significant portion of the 11 million illegal immigrants currently in the US are rapists and murderers.

Trump has also voiced support for deporting all 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. This is much more hard-line than most other recent republican presidential candidates. The amount of money and resources that would be required to locate, round up, and deport 11 million people would likely be very high. Furthermore, many of these illegal immigrants have given birth to children since they got here, which makes their children legal US citizens. Trump has yet to clarify how he is going to deal with these split-citizenship families.

At another point, Trump supported a temporary ban on all Muslims entering the country. He initially said that we would ask people if they were Muslim, and if they said yes, we wouldn't let them into the country. He has since changed his plan to only involve stricter checks on people who are emigrating from war-torn areas.

I'm not entirely sure if this is due to Trump doing something to alienate African American voters, or if Hillary is just extremely popular with them (her husband was the president who signed Affirmative Action and a handful of other anti-discrimination bills). Regardless of the cause, Trump has very low approval among African American voters. According to an NBC News/Wallstreet Journal poll last week, Donald Trump is polling at literally 0% with African American voters in both Ohio and Pennsylvania, which are critical swing states.

There's also the issue of Barack Obama's birthplace. Donald Trump was one of the most famous proponents of the idea that President Obama was born in Kenya, and was therefore not a US citizen, and not eligible to be president. He demanded that Obama provide his birth certificate, which was eventually made public. Trump then argued that this was a short form version, and he didn't believe it was authentic. Trump has also stated that he does not believe President Obama graduated from Columbia University. Trump has distanced himself from these positions lately. He hasn't apologized or said that he no longer believes these things, but he doesn't talk about them and refuses to answer questions about it.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#113
post #36

There are quite a few Trump supporters in the Valley, but they simply stay quiet because they will get 'racist' yelled at them and it will potentially hurt their careers.

Don't you think being a Trump supporter =should= hurt most people's careers? It's pretty poor judgment, for starters.

No. That's called thought-policing, and it's wrong.

We should not harm people's livelihood just because we don't like their politics.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#114
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, Trump and Hillary aren't that different. He's a little less of a warhawk, speaks his mind, and is pro-2A. The last one is almost enough on its own for me, given Hillarys stance on that issue.

> He's a little less of a warhawk Given that he's criticized Obama/Clinton for being insufficiently aggressive in several areas, and praised Putin's aggressiveness, I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from, besides his after-the-fact claims to have opposed the Iraq War before it started (his only public statement on the war before it started appears to have been grudging support, not opposition, on the Howard St…

He has criticized John McCain and Lindsey Graham over their pro war stances. In the debates he has mentioned problems with the interventionist foreign policy.

Surprisingly he even attracted support of Michael Scheuer ( a huge critic of our interventionist foreign policy), although I believe he has pulled back a bit on that recently.

However, yes he has also made somewhat contradictory statements as well. So, it is hard to draw any definitive conclusions what his actual policy would look like.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#115
post #9

From Peter Thiels perspective its a smart move because he's the only one willing to do something this crazy. This gives him a "monopoly" (as he likes to say) on political access as it relates to the tech world if Trump wins. In short it looks like a bet. Personally I find Trump an archetype of everything I'm trying to get away from in life.... but that is not the point. Also this is just my opinion and maybe their is…

That is interesting. I hadn't come across that idea before. He's effectively shorting American democracy and rule of law. If he wins, he will collect a huge windfall (aside from the access, imagine all the contracts that Palantir will win). If he loses, he still has his status in the Valley, where he hasn't been ostracized for heterdox ideas.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#116
post #14

Given the libertarian/Randian streak that runs through silicon valley, support for Trump doesn't seem too outlandish. Especially when you consider his non-dedication to the typical right-wing 'family values' that aren't really popular in that region of California.

You'd think any actual libertarian would be jumping at the chance to get Johnson over the 5% threshold.

Unless Thiel is actually interested in backing a candidate with a chance of winning - in which case, 5% means nothing.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#117
post #9

From Peter Thiels perspective its a smart move because he's the only one willing to do something this crazy. This gives him a "monopoly" (as he likes to say) on political access as it relates to the tech world if Trump wins. In short it looks like a bet. Personally I find Trump an archetype of everything I'm trying to get away from in life.... but that is not the point. Also this is just my opinion and maybe their is…

+1 good comment! I read Thiel's Zero to One book twice, and you might have nailed the reason.

BTW, off topic, but this campaign is crazy. I don't like either Clinton or Trump, and have mentioned to friends and family that I will leave the presidential part of the ballot in November blank or vote for Jill Stein. It just seems wrong to me to vote for someone I simply don't like. For this honesty, I have several friends who are all over my case for 'wasting my vote.'

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#118
post #109
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't necessarily follow, but I'm curious to hear the answer. You can think people should be allowed to do something, but that them doing that thing is harmful. For example, look at all the people that lamented the fact that plebs voted for Brexit. A lot of anti-democracy talk around the time of that vote.

That's a good point about Brexit because I noted even here on HN a great deal of overt resentment toward people who are older who largely voted #leave - as though their votes were less valid because of their age.

That is a reasonable point if you consider Brexit is a hard-to-reverse decision. Older voters have to live with the consequence of their vote for much less long, and unlike an ordinary political vote, the outcome can't be reversed in another five years. Older voters have a different balance of interests between "Stick it up the bureaucrats to blow steam off" and "Irreversibly change the UK's relationship with Europe" than younger voters.

Maybe we should've weighted votes by projected life expectancy...

On the other hand, the vote also affects people who can't vote or aren't even born yet, and there's no weighting system that can deal with that. Maybe that's a reason not to have referenda on these sorts of questions.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#119
post #36

There are quite a few Trump supporters in the Valley, but they simply stay quiet because they will get 'racist' yelled at them and it will potentially hurt their careers.

Don't you think being a Trump supporter =should= hurt most people's careers? It's pretty poor judgment, for starters.

Pat, that is a pretty disgusting thing to say. Please reconsider if political viewpoints are worthy of career punishment.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#120

Given the libertarian/Randian streak that runs through silicon valley, support for Trump doesn't seem too outlandish. Especially when you consider his non-dedication to the typical right-wing 'family values' that aren't really popular in that region of California.

Trump is the anti-Randian candidate. - He's against free trade. - He's in favor of punishing success, represented for example by his threats toward Amazon. - He panders to religion. Rand was an atheist and was very strongly anti-conservative. - Rand was very strongly in favor of immigration, especially when mixed with Capitalism. - He's in favor of drastically increasing government control over the Internet, represen…

> I'd probably be willing to argue that Sanders is less anti-Rand than Trump is.

You'd be correct. On social and personal issues Sanders is very compatible with Randian forms of "libertarianism." He supports ending the drug war and womens' reproductive rights (personal sovereignty over one's body) and the right to make personal choices around things like sexuality, religion, etc.

His economics are far from Rand's but probably not much further (if at all) than Clinton or Trump. It'd probably be a wash there. There were/are no economic libertarians in this race as competitive candidates.

Rand was also not a fan of nationalism, which she regarded as collectivism. I'm not sure how anyone could get nationalism out of Rand except insofar as she believed that a government had a duty to protect its citizens. Beyond that she distrusted the idea of a nation as a component of identity, considering it collectivist.

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