71–80 of 86 posts
We rent our brains for money. Brain prostitution. We can seek higher offers, no guilt needed.
The recruiter guilting you is the recruiter acting out their anger that you didn't earn them their $25k or whatever. They get whatever exorbitant cut they do specifically because of the risk that they assume. I backed out of a new job on a Thursday when I was scheduled to start on Monday. Recruiter was super nasty to me. It was unfortunate to back out when I did, but that's when the offer came in, and they were offer…
This. Recruiter's daily job is to talk to people to convince and pressure them for positions that are potentially undesirable (otherwise, the roles will be handled by an internal recruiter or filled very quickly); it is a cold-calling sales job where rejections and cold feet are common, and the final closing are far and between. Their emotional response to rejections should be equivalent to a programmer's emotional r…
I've had several jobs I've gotten via recruiter and several that were direct hire. In every single case, the direct hire jobs were better (quality of the work environment, treatment, quality of the software and environments .. I'd even dare the say the quality of the team/other employees in some cases).
Another thing about the writer of this article; he mentions his loyalty and how it felt like he was "cheating on his wife". You should never feel loyal to a company. It's not a personal relationship. I talk about it a bit in this writeup: http://khanism.org/society/loyalty/
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The offer was 20k more than my base salary already. Asking for even more seemed crazy to me. I have controversial opinions on how much money developers make already, probably stemming from my imposter syndrome. Asking for more money did not make me comfortable. If they had offered, I would have had to reconsider. I expected more of a conversation after I declined, but it didn't happen.
The path forward is usually not comfortable. Up to you whether or not it's worth it (sounds like it's not). > I expected more of a conversation after I declined Guessing the recruiter felt the same way. "A call would have been nice" was the chance to have more of a conversation! It's where they say "what went wrong?" and you say "it's all great but I did the math and I need another $15k (or whatever) for the move to…
The company is not buying trinkets at a flea market. It's trying to rent skilled labor in a competitive market. If you pay me less than I'm worth, I can usually find a higher bidder. So there is the price you can pay to get me to work for you next month, and there is a higher price you can pay to hire me and get me to stop seeking offers from other employers for the next N months.
And the possibility that someone would walk away rather than counter is the very thing that keeps initial offers reasonable for everybody. It is the very same principle behind unionized collective bargaining, without the cartel enforcer of the union. The Nash equilibrium is to always negotiate individually, because you will usually get more money, but the strategy that benefits the whole class (tech employees) the most in aggregate is for most of us to not negotiate at all, and to judge the first offer as the only offer, because that ensures that tech employers always have to open with their best possible offer, or risk losing the candidate entirely.
Fortunately for tech employers, tech employees don't have enough solidarity or a strong enough cartel enforcer to accept any common negotiations strategy.
All my interviews in my past few months have been in this format. 1. Talking to recruiter ( 0-1 hr) 2. InterviewStreet coding challenge ( 2 hrs) 3. Phone Screen - 1 hr 4. Take home coding exercise - 4 hrs So you are spending 8 hrs just to get your resume looked at. Then comes onsite interview which is another day ( assuming you are not flying out). All recruiter did was mass email ppl on linkedin. Spending at most 1…
In fact, if you base it strictly on reciprocity, for some companies, you wouldn't even have to send an e-mail to the recruiter. You could just never contact them again and leave them to wonder. But I consider that behavior to be so beyond the pale in prospective employers that a short, e-mailed note saying "I decline your offer," is the minimum that I would ever do.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This. Recruiter's daily job is to talk to people to convince and pressure them for positions that are potentially undesirable (otherwise, the roles will be handled by an internal recruiter or filled very quickly); it is a cold-calling sales job where rejections and cold feet are common, and the final closing are far and between. Their emotional response to rejections should be equivalent to a programmer's emotional r…
I really despise all things recruiter. I frequently hang up on them. They are the scum of the industry. I've had several jobs I've gotten via recruiter and several that were direct hire. In every single case, the direct hire jobs were better (quality of the work environment, treatment, quality of the software and environments .. I'd even dare the say the quality of the team/other employees in some cases). Another thi…
Your employer is not like your spouse. Your employer is more like a f'buddy that is into "S" when you are not into "M", who gives you a booty call every weekday at 9AM without fail, who leaves a fat wad of cash on your nightstand every two weeks, and who all your other friends think is a colossal jerk. Also, your employer is anything but monogamous, but expects you to be.
You would dump them in a second, if it weren't for that cash, because that would make you a fool rather than a prostitute.
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I looked and saw million dollar houses as far as an hour's drive away from SV. You mentioned Gilroy, the price situation (800k, 4M, 1M, 1M, 600k are the first 5 results) doesn't even look much better than in SF proper: http://www.zillow.com/gilroy-ca/ Moreover, they don't really have condos in Gilroy.
See, it's this kind of negativity that gets people depressed about housing. Detached house (needs work) $359k https://www.redfin.com/CA/Gilroy/7270-Alexander-St-95020/hom... Condo in Morgan Hill @ $446k: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Morgan-Hill/112-La-Crosse-Dr-95037... Detached 3/2 SFH @ $500k https://www.redfin.com/CA/Gilroy/374-Walnut-Ln-95020/home/10... Nice townhouse @ $495k: https://www.redfin.com/CA/GILROY/7664-G…
$250k gets you a two-story house with an actual YARD there.
Pittsburgh's tech scene is great now, too: Carnegie Mellon (CMU), Google Pittsburgh, Uber (self-driving car lab), Oculus Research, Duolingo, and a plethora of other startups. There's even seed investors here now! Even Paul Graham, a Pittsburgh native, is getting involved again.
I mention this to someone here, and 9 times out of 10 the reaction is along the lines of "Pittsburgh?! Why would you EVER want to live there?" Oftentimes, the person who cannot conceive the possibility of living a happy life outside of Silicon Valley's bubble either has an inherited house that ballooned in value, or they're still renting at age 35.
It sounds like the poster is happy with his position in life, and he's just figuring that out. I think favorite piece of wisdom that can be applied to this post is to listen to your gut when it tells you not to do something; not the other way around. If you're in a position in life where you're happy, try to coast for a while and enjoy stability.
In very large organizations, a lot of things just suck. My cube-mate told me "csours, we have some problems around here" and I just laughed for 5 minutes. Yes we have some problems around here. I can think of 10 major things we are doing wrong at any one time...
But yea, you can just coast for a very long time in the enterprise; it doesn't make you feel good though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The offer was 20k more than my base salary already. Asking for even more seemed crazy to me. I have controversial opinions on how much money developers make already, probably stemming from my imposter syndrome. Asking for more money did not make me comfortable. If they had offered, I would have had to reconsider. I expected more of a conversation after I declined, but it didn't happen.
The path forward is usually not comfortable. Up to you whether or not it's worth it (sounds like it's not). > I expected more of a conversation after I declined Guessing the recruiter felt the same way. "A call would have been nice" was the chance to have more of a conversation! It's where they say "what went wrong?" and you say "it's all great but I did the math and I need another $15k (or whatever) for the move to…
The recruiter guilting you is the recruiter acting out their anger that you didn't earn them their $25k or whatever. They get whatever exorbitant cut they do specifically because of the risk that they assume. I backed out of a new job on a Thursday when I was scheduled to start on Monday. Recruiter was super nasty to me. It was unfortunate to back out when I did, but that's when the offer came in, and they were offer…
Yes exactly this. I had the same experience a few months ago. I interviewed and got a great offer. My company countered with "how about we match the offer AND you get to work on whatever you want". I decided to decline the offer (and stay put) and the recruiter's boss actually called me and tried to pressure and guilt me into taking the offer. I kept saying to him that it's unreasonable for him to expect me to take o…
We rent our brains for money. Brain prostitution. We can seek higher offers, no guilt needed.
Exactly. Everybody in this industry needs to shift their mindset. You are not a loyal little employee cherished by your boss, you are a contractor with one customer, period. You do not owe anything to anybody, you are free to go with what is best for you as an individual and a professional.