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My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

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Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#241

Post by throwanem »

astrodust wrote: post #222
pastProlog wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was a "deliberate campaign of genocide by starvation" happening, I'm sure I could look in the New York Times archives of the period and read about that. If I consult the archives, the reporters going through the Ukraine said reports of that were false. Also, all of Europe had a bad crop that year, I guess the Soviets were controlling the weather?

There's a lot of hyperbole on both sides here. The Soviets at the time claimed Americans were starving by the millions, and of course Americans claimed the Soviets were starving by the millions. Of course this is a point too subtle to work on Hacker News. The data on both sides is wobbly to the point of being undependable. Until modern social security systems kicked in the number of people living in the US was largel…

The Soviets claimed a lot of things. Of course, so did, and still do, the United States. But it's not for nothing, I think, that you find no shortage of contemporary Soviet and Ukrainian, and modern Russian, attestations of the Holodomor - whereas on the other side of things, not even the furthest right-wing anti-FDR John Birchers ever made even the slightest attempt to claim that any such thing happened in the United States. No one denies the Dust Bowl was bad. No one in the US, as far as I've ever been able to determine, has ever even tried to claim the Dust Bowl was that bad.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#242

Post by ersii »

internaut wrote: post #233
daxorid wrote: post #95

Looking at this disaster, I have to wonder why most people regard "preppers" as crazy.

I agree, keeping 'food insurance' is far from crazy. You can buy MREs that last five to ten years. They won't solve all problems but they will certainly give you time to react appropriately e.g. escaping an area or growing food for the following year. Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn?

> Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn?

If you don't remember it or want to see it again, look here [1] with the HN discussion here [2].

[1] https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Series%3A+...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11075430

Edit: Changed [1] to the current link, old link that [2] refers to doesn't work

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#243

Post by throwanem »

pastProlog wrote: post #213
throwanem wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a hell of a big difference between an inadvertent result of ill-considered agricultural practices and a deliberate campaign of genocide by starvation.

If there was a "deliberate campaign of genocide by starvation" happening, I'm sure I could look in the New York Times archives of the period and read about that. If I consult the archives, the reporters going through the Ukraine said reports of that were false. Also, all of Europe had a bad crop that year, I guess the Soviets were controlling the weather?

No-true-Scotsmanism about the Soviet Union and communism is a hell of a hill to pick to die on in 2016. I don't envy you. But my sympathy is strictly limited by the fact that your choice of ideology causes you to bring it on yourself.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#244

Post by the_vzlan »

internaut wrote: post #237
the_vzlan wrote: post #193

Venezuelan here. Feel Free to ask me anything. I am in a privileged position, though, I understand the situation of 'common people' as I work closely with them as a local business owner. This journal is really close to the reality. To those wondering about 'side markets' and 'farmers marking a killing', let me explain. There is a black market for food and any other good. Shortages are real, especially when it comes t…

This will sound like a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway. Why can't they just drop the price controls? I expect it is ideological, but surely being alive trumps ideology (in that you'll starve or else people who have decided to become more flexible will kill you).

I have given a lot of thought to this question. It seems fairly simple but given that they've taken the other route, that is, force more controls, the government would look bad.

I think there's a lot of internal problems within the ruling party in regards to what should be done. Unfortunately, the president is the one unwilling to see differently or "betray" his ideology (or so it seems).

There are also subsidies to most products (as the government solution to some of the price caps) and last thing that has been said (in an informal setting by the VP) was that "the subsidies have been a mistake" and that they will try to fix it with some sort of "basic income" but only for the poor rather than for everyone - which opens another HUGE opportunity for white collar corruption - something the government seems to love and cherish.

In short, the president preaches a radicalism that would go against taking "neo-liberal economic policies" and by doing so he (I assume), perceives that the public will find him weak. Which, paradoxically, he already is. In my view, Nicolas Maduro (our president) is in an impossible situation in which the best he can do is to step away - but this opens another pandora box that he seems unwilling to go for, as such he's doing everything in his power to avoid a referendum or any sort of democratic solution.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#245

Post by doozy »

ensiferum wrote: post #232

Why is it that all the ex Spanish colonies are pretty much 3rd world shit holes and all the ex British colonies are doing pretty well. Any causality??

Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda, Jamaica, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh...

All apparently doing pretty well.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#246

Post by rafaelm »

junto wrote: post #230
CamonZ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has a socialist majority because previously the rich bleed them dry BS. The system was always open enough that you could make something of yourself. >Now the boot is on the other foot and the socialists are starving out the middle and upper classes. Except the upper and middle classes still have money to buy products at exorbitant prices. Who do you think are the people who are starving to death, having to kill w…

I suggest you read these for an shedding viewpoint. I'd hazard a guess that the truth lies somewhere in between the propaganda from both sides. http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/13-years-after-foi... http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/20/venezuelas-opposition...

As someone born, raised and currently living in Venezuela, I can tell you that, yes, previously the elites ruled the country and created massive amounts of poor people.

But 40 years ago, someone like my father,who came from a very modest and tiny town in the east of the country managed to go to school, study and buy a house and a car with my mom who also came from modest upbringing.

They managed to buy an apartment with their salary and put my sister and I through school and college. And just like them, thousands of venezuelans had some hope to get ahead through work.

Right now, I'm an electrical engineer thanks to them and I could work my whole life and never be able to afford the tiniest house. I'm scraping by with less than $100 a month and I already make more money than most people.

Why do you think most young people here have plans or have left the country? Because they have ZERO hope of ever moving out of their parent's house or buying a car. That was not a reality before Chavez came to power.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#247

Post by randiantech »

Aloha wrote: post #157
clock_tower wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people didn't starve under the US-backed dictatorships, so those regimes have that much going for them. But they didn't starve under Castro either, and living conditions were probably better under Castro than in any country in the Warsaw Pact (see Anthony Daniels' _Utopias Elsewhere_); so I'd guess that most of the story is that Chavez was just that dumb.

An Island like Cuba is just small enough to make actual communism possibly work - it has just slightly less people that the Los Angeles Metro area does - it also has a very homogeneous cultural background. Cuba however isn't quite rich enough in natural resources to actually reach autarky however, if it was, Cuba might be a very different story. I'm not a proponent of anything Authoritarian, but communism on a small…

May I ask you what actually fascinates you of living in a society where actually theres no private property?

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#248

Post by rafaelm »

the_vzlan wrote: post #193

Venezuelan here. Feel Free to ask me anything. I am in a privileged position, though, I understand the situation of 'common people' as I work closely with them as a local business owner. This journal is really close to the reality. To those wondering about 'side markets' and 'farmers marking a killing', let me explain. There is a black market for food and any other good. Shortages are real, especially when it comes t…

Another venezuelan in HN! Hi!

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#249

Post by CamonZ »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #173
throw89234 wrote: post #45

I grow-up in similar conditions. It is always funny when some spoiled kid with $500 handbag calls me privileged cis-gender white male.

That's an odd turn... care to elaborate on the connection between government caused economic crises in South America and identity politics among (what I assume are) North American urbanites?

Marxism, Frankfurt School.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#250

Post by internaut »

the_vzlan wrote: post #244
internaut wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will sound like a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway. Why can't they just drop the price controls? I expect it is ideological, but surely being alive trumps ideology (in that you'll starve or else people who have decided to become more flexible will kill you).

I have given a lot of thought to this question. It seems fairly simple but given that they've taken the other route, that is, force more controls, the government would look bad. I think there's a lot of internal problems within the ruling party in regards to what should be done. Unfortunately, the president is the one unwilling to see differently or "betray" his ideology (or so it seems). There are also subsidies to…

If yourself or rafaelm could do with a food supply package and the postal system is working correctly, then email me with an address and list of hard to source foodstuffs. My email is my HN username AT fastmail.fm
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