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Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

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Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#131

Post by hnal943 »

doc_holliday wrote: post #80
donkeyd wrote: post #32

This reminds me about my time writing games in Basic on my calculator during math class. I suck at math because of this, but at least I'm an ok programmer.

Yes! TI Basic on my Texas Instruments graphics calculator was how I spent downtime during math class. So much so, I remember writing program for solving quadratic equations. They were supposed to clear the calculators memory during exmas, but the exam invigilators had no idea what calculators could do, so they didn't. I'd like to think it wasn't cheating... as writing quadratic solver in TI basic is harder than solvi…

I have the same story, but my first program was for solving systems of equations using a variety of methods and showing its work each step of the way. Same as you, I learned the material far more thoroughly than had I studied it in a conventional way.

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#133

Post by digi_owl »

dingo_bat wrote: post #38
Jerry2 wrote: post #16

Andy Hertzfeld recollects how Macintosh team dissected the new IBM PC and what they thought of donkey.bas: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...

Wow, that's a salty article!

I know i'll invite shit for this, but "cult of the mac" is a term...

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#134

Post by BashiBazouk »

lanevorockz wrote: post #60
Jerry2 wrote: post #16

Andy Hertzfeld recollects how Macintosh team dissected the new IBM PC and what they thought of donkey.bas: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...

Agree with the article, the code is not to be proud of. One thing about the Macintosh, it was better but the price was way higher. Most people stayed with the z80s that costed a fraction and were as good for games.

But keep in mind that this was while the Mac was still in development. The Apple ][ was a great game machine. That is what they are probably comparing it to. I was in high school at this time and the library had a whole wall of PCs and one Apple ][. Huge crowd playing Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple, no one touching the PCs as they only had Flight Simulator on them. In a vacuum, Donkey is not too bad, but compared to Castle Wolfenstein and the other good games on the Apple, I can see why it got a meh...

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#135

Post by busyant »

versteegen wrote: post #102
busyant wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something unseemly about ripping on other people. I know it's bill gates, but Hertzfeld comes across as the kind of guy who enjoys making people feel small.

Seriously? I've ready almost every story on folklore.org, and this is the only instance I can remember where he puts anyone down -- it sticks out in my memory for that very reason.

I'm simply basing my statement on my reading of that one story. I haven't read anything else on that site and I don't know the person at all.

I think the original poster was simply responding to the "vibe" of that essay.

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#136

Post by throwanem »

webtechgal wrote: post #119
colejohnson66 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you just increment by 100? Or even 1000? Why did everyone use 10? Was it some interpreter limit that didn't allow line numbers above a certain amount (like 2^15 on a 16-bit CPU)?

I remember there being a STEP command to set the increment value. However, when I tested it (on the PCJS sim from the top of the thread) just now, its throwing a Syntax Error!! I am nearly sure that was what the command was, but I don't know what gives right now.

My BASIC memories are rusty, and more oriented toward Applesoft than Microsoft. But I remember STEP being used to give an optional increment to the FOR statement, rather than setting a line numbering increment - for example, you might

    FOR i$ FROM 1 TO 10 STEP 2
    PRINT i$
    NEXT
and get back 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, each on its own line.

I don't remember a command to set the increment for line numbers, but that may be because I never used a BASIC which didn't either require a number on every line or not care about line numbers except as targets for GOTO and similar.

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#137

Post by __b__ »

segmondy wrote: post #112

Why are people complaining that the game is bad? Really? Can we see what you wrote in 1982? Games like this were quickly hacked together to show the capabilities of the machine. It was done in BASIC for owner's of those machines to play with. If this was a commercial product, it would be written in assembly. If anything, this was likely a demo of Microsoft BASIC, let's not forget that Bill Gate's first product was no…

Was Kildall a better programmer than Gates?^U

Who wrote more elegant software?

Who undercut the price of the other's software? And why?

Microsoft's early success was not due to originality.

Gates has no aesthetic. He has no respectable standard of quality.

Does anyone remember "Microsoft Bob"?

He may be worthy of respect by less capable programmers. He may be worthy of respect by the business community. He may be worthy of respect for his philanthropic efforts.

But for software users who have any insight into and appreciation of software quality, he has yet to earn any respect. For these users, he has only impeded progress. And Microsoft continues this tradition to this day.

It is perfectly OK to critique him on this particular point.

[Original title was something like "Gates wrote this beauty at four in the morning."]

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#138

Post by 32bitkid »

My father bought the first family computer, an IBM PCjr, when I was 4 or 5. Donkey.BAS made a huge impact on me, although its easy to overlook as a crap game these days. Sure, there were "better" games that I played on that system: my older brother purchased Sierra's Black Cauldron–which I played the shit out of. My uncle wanted me to grow up to be a pilot, so MS Flight Simulator was in order, too. Jordan Mechner's Karateka is still, to this day, mind blowing to me. And lest we forget some Broderbund and Microprose classics.

But donkey.BAS was, which all those other things weren't, is my _first_, real introduction to programming. I was too young at the time to really recognize the value in being able to not only consume, but read the code, change it, learn from it. Unlike more polished games, I learned way more about programming from changing, breaking, and subverting donkey.bas than anything else on the PCjr. Sure, it wasn't _the best_, but it was the first time that someone pulled back the curtain and I was afforded a glimpse at what was possible, and what computers could _do_. Between that, pouring through the "Hands On Basic" book[0], and typing in basic programs COMPUTE magazine, I'm not sure that I'd be a programmer today, as hyperbolous as that sounds...

And some overly nostalgic part of me kind of misses doing PEEKs and POKEs in physical memory and the summer I spent learning binary math because I didn't understand the relationship between the AH and AL registers of my 286 years later. Then I go back to writing CRUD applications in whatever javascript library is the flavor of the month.

I just hope that kids today have the same access to shitty, but accessible, chunks of code to help inspire them and show them what the machines they interact with everyday are really capable of.

[0]: http://www.brutman.com/BasementCleanout/IBM_Hands-On_BASIC/H...

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#139

Post by mediaserf »

busterarm wrote: post #107
Narishma wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree about the Ataris. They were very popular gaming platforms at the time.

Not the ST, which would be the competition we're talking about vs the C64, etc.

You can't compare the ST and C64.

C64's competition were the Atari 400, 800, XL and XE lines. Most games came out for both platforms. Atari's player missle system was both an advantage and a disadvantage in some respects.

The ST and Amiga were competitors but completely different platforms than their respective predecessors.

When you're talking Mac - the Apple II would have been the contemporary of the C64 and Atari 8-bit lines. There were games on Apple computers as well, but I suspect not as many. They were completely dysfunctional and the Apple IIgs was a really fun machine.

Re: Donkey – A computer game included with early versions of PC DOS

#140

Post by allenu »

Etheryte wrote: post #25
allenu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets run in the correct order. Think of each line as a command that stores the instruction immediately at that line number. You could actually "re-type" a line later by reusing the same line number but replacing it with new contents.

What is "correct order"? You forgot to answer the actual question.

Sorry, it was ambiguous. I assumed the writer of the original code intended to execute them in the order of the line numbers and that was the "correct order". Otherwise, the line numbers are meaningless.
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