Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#31

Post by XFrequentist » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 10:37 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #18

SoftwarePatent wrote: post #13

This journalist [1] wrote a great book [2] about the lack of press freedom in Rwanda, and western complicity in press crackdowns. He's an amazing guy--accepted a job at Goldman during college, then reneged on the job to fly one-way to Africa and become a freelance journalist. That's without any experience as a journalist! [1] https://twitter.com/anjansun [2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/11/bad-news-last…

Gets worse than that actually. Much of this "prosperity" is driven by warlords stealing resources from places like Eastern Congo. And that's where everything Rwandan gets really nasty. A guy named Laurent Nkunda once cleared an entire city of roughly 75 000 people. (Goma. Many of those were running so fast that children and the elderly were left behind. Which made for some pretty sad sights in the aftermath.) I had a…

For an utterly different take on Nkunda,see here:http://exiledonline.com/nkunda-is-nkool/all/1

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#32

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 11:24 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #30

throwaway201606 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my opinion that it is a terrible statement on current affairs that this comment is ranked so high. While all the things said here are true, they: a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990 ( http://abt.cm/QNKiYt ) b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand (Rwanda and its place in the current technology marketplace) In my mind, a similar example might be reading something about say, for example th…

"...a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990..." Nice try. Goma was cleared in fighting during the Nord-Kivu clashes in 2008. (Nkunda's forces opposed Army of DRCongo and UN Peacemaker contingent of roughly 17000.) Additionally, the theft of Congolese resources is ongoing. "...b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand..." That depends on how one thinks. Finally, with respect to the duplicity of Weste…

>The white man is not the only force for evil on the globe

No, but he does it really professionally, including having created most of the mess in Africa in the first place. Most of those "states" where designed by colonialists in artificial (i.e. what colonial power controls what as opposed based on historically and culturally developed ethnic formations), and were usually created to contain 2-3 competing fractions in a "divide and conquer" approach, with the colonial and post-colonial powers playing (and arming) both sides... Add their support to all kinds of dictators, scum and lackeys and the undermining of efforts to clean the slate, boost local control, etc, and the result is what we have today...

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#33

Post by asenna » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 11:43 PM UTC

donretag wrote: post #28

iamjeff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive Indeed, you will find very few that would argue with that. Also, there are clear economic and social benefits to little/no corruption. However, Rwanda's good fortune in fighting corruption in a sea of systemically corrupt countries (the neighboring DRC and Burundi are notoriously corrupt, but that still pales in comparison to Kenya, a country that hosts numerous…

I must mention that I did not go to Kenya or other neighboring countries. I started my trip in Uganda and worked my way down. The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania as an outsider is immense. The roads are in good condition and there are no speed bumps because the drivers are not reckless. Bodaboda drivers will give you helmets! (granted, they probably are so old that offer no protection). Little trash on…

> Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries.

I have grown up in Dar es salaam, Tanzania and have travelled a lot in the East African countries and I am quite surprised by that statement.

I am guessing it had more to do with the areas you went to/lived in. There are definitely filthy places and slum areas but there is also the good parts of town with good roads in Dar / Arusha and other cities. In that sense, even San Francisco and other cities that I have lived in in the US have filthy areas. Of course, it's more pronounced in these African countries but I wouldn't associate these countries with filthiness.

If it's the villages and small towns you were referring to, I think these are more or less similar in the way they are all across the area.

On a side note, I have recently been visiting Kenya more often (my dad works in Nairobi) and I would recommend anyone planning a trip to this side of the continent to consider Kenya + Tanzania trip(Masai mara + Serengeti, Ngorongoro). Especially if you're a nature and wildlife lover. It will change your life.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#34

Post by donretag » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:38 AM UTC

asenna wrote: post #33

donretag wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must mention that I did not go to Kenya or other neighboring countries. I started my trip in Uganda and worked my way down. The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania as an outsider is immense. The roads are in good condition and there are no speed bumps because the drivers are not reckless. Bodaboda drivers will give you helmets! (granted, they probably are so old that offer no protection). Little trash on…

> Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries. I have grown up in Dar es salaam, Tanzania and have travelled a lot in the East African countries and I am quite surprised by that statement. I am guessing it had more to do with the areas you went to/lived in. There are definitely filthy places and slum areas but there is also the good parts of town with good roads in Dar / Arusha and other cities. In that sense, even S…

Cleanliness had a different meaning over there. Everyone's house and place of business was very clean. Spotless. However, they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street. As long as it was not in there house, it was fine. Bizarre. Food wrappers everywhere. Empty bags of 100ml alcohol (Konyagi, etc) everywhere. I traveled by public means and the view of the roads did not leave of good impression. Do not get me wrong, I still had an amazing time. Even gorgeous Zanzibar had piles of garbage if you did not stay at a resort.

I spent very little time in Dar. It basically was the gateway to Zanzibar. Because of its reputation for crime and not wanting to be in cities but in nature, we only spent two nights there. As a music lover, I really wanted to visit places such as the ones described here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/travel/where-tanzania-taps... I was there at the wrong time (Sunday nights) and the venues were far from my hotel. Would have loved to go if I knew someone.

I had better safaris elsewhere, but Ngorongoro itself is magical.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#35

Post by iamjeff » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 7:27 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #28

iamjeff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive Indeed, you will find very few that would argue with that. Also, there are clear economic and social benefits to little/no corruption. However, Rwanda's good fortune in fighting corruption in a sea of systemically corrupt countries (the neighboring DRC and Burundi are notoriously corrupt, but that still pales in comparison to Kenya, a country that hosts numerous…

I must mention that I did not go to Kenya or other neighboring countries. I started my trip in Uganda and worked my way down. The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania as an outsider is immense. The roads are in good condition and there are no speed bumps because the drivers are not reckless. Bodaboda drivers will give you helmets! (granted, they probably are so old that offer no protection). Little trash on…

>The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania

I have had little opportunity to travel to other countries myself, but I imagine that infrastructure quality is something that sticks out almost immediately. If you do come to Kenya (Nairobi in particular), the 20 km journey from the airport to the city center peels away a lot about the country: the notoriously in-your-face drivers, the defiantly corrupt traffic police officers, and the unforgettably poignant stenches (along certain stretches of the road) to say nothing of the potholes.

>Little trash on the streets. Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries

I have heard people express the same sentiment about Rwanda and frankly, yet I cannot bring myself to picture it. You see, there is a lot of filth in Nairobi, so much so that the government spends millions (of shillings) trying to re-educate people. But things used to be a lot, lot worse. Up until 15 years ago, Nairobi's central business district was unimaginably littered, men urinated when and as they liked/pleased, street urchins filled the back alleys (with both their excrement and presence), and nobody seemed to care. A lot of these things still happen to this day. But it is in the 'suburbs' that things are really out of hand. Recently, Madonna shared a picture that, in essence, summarizes the state of Kenya's 'suburbia' [https://www.instagram.com/p/BHZ6gW6h-95/?taken-by=madonna]. That picture is not an outlier, and I can personally confirm that this is the case in many places, including places that I frequent regularly. Kenya too has many such filthy places. This is not an elitist view, just the sad truth.

>genocide museum

I do not know how I would react in such a place. I abhor violence and would probably come away from the experience deeply traumatized. It is a complete shock that humanity is capable of such heinous crimes. What is even more shocking is that these sort of crimes never stop: every human generation has lived through similar genocidal events: Genocides in history [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history]; Genocide of indigenous peoples [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples... Category:Lists of massacres by country [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_massacres_by... List of events named massacres [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres].

>Ultimately, there was little to do in Rwanda

Aha, the hype is busted! Just kidding. Planning to take a trip later this or next year so I am going to have to find something to do, won't I.

PS: Any key take-aways: spots, activities, food?

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#36

Post by iamjeff » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 7:31 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #34

asenna wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries. I have grown up in Dar es salaam, Tanzania and have travelled a lot in the East African countries and I am quite surprised by that statement. I am guessing it had more to do with the areas you went to/lived in. There are definitely filthy places and slum areas but there is also the good parts of town with good roads in Dar / Arusha and other cities. In that sense, even S…

Cleanliness had a different meaning over there. Everyone's house and place of business was very clean. Spotless. However, they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street. As long as it was not in there house, it was fine. Bizarre. Food wrappers everywhere. Empty bags of 100ml alcohol (Konyagi, etc) everywhere. I traveled by public means and the view of the roads did not leave of good impression. Do…

>they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street

Yes, this has been my experience. It is simply hilarious.

>Konyagi

Yeah, ain't that a sight. By "bags" you surely meant plastic bottles, no?

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#37

Post by roel_v » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 7:44 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #26

roel_v wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious q, I've never been in Africa: what is there to do in Zim to have a good time? Did you go on safari or somerhing similar, or are there off-the-beaten-track things to do (without knowing locals) that are relatively safe to do?

I could talk a lot about Africa. Loved it. Everything is off the beaten path, which is why I loved it. Outside of the known spots (Egypt and the northern countries, South Africa), there is no mass tourism. No bus loads of tourists that start taking pictures as soon as they step off. Zim was unique. At that point, I already spent almost two months in East Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi), and my entrance (int…

Great, thanks.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#38

Post by iamjeff » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 3:14 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #32

bilbo0s wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990..." Nice try. Goma was cleared in fighting during the Nord-Kivu clashes in 2008. (Nkunda's forces opposed Army of DRCongo and UN Peacemaker contingent of roughly 17000.) Additionally, the theft of Congolese resources is ongoing. "...b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand..." That depends on how one thinks. Finally, with respect to the duplicity of Weste…

> The white man is not the only force for evil on the globe No, but he does it really professionally, including having created most of the mess in Africa in the first place. Most of those "states" where designed by colonialists in artificial (i.e. what colonial power controls what as opposed based on historically and culturally developed ethnic formations), and were usually created to contain 2-3 competing fractions…

>he does it really professionally

I couldn't agree with you more. It is lost on most people that African boundaries and political realities are a fairly recent construct. The majority of African states as we know them today are no more than two generations old (c. 60 years). These boundaries are also, in many ways, an artificial creation that do not necessarily represent the pre-colonial and cultural realities of the numerous ethnic communities and interests that exist across Africa today. The legacy of this "divide and rule" approach cannot be over-stated and has been a driving force behind the continent's sad, sad state of affairs. Also, only a generation ago did the Cold War abate and with it, murderous proxy wars and political struggles in countries such as Angola, Mozambique, the DRC (and the wider Central Africa), Uganda, to name but a few. There are numerous explanations of and studies into the impact of colonization and the Cold War on ongoing conflicts and human rights abuses in Africa and, honestly, I am no domain expert. Regardless, here are two sources that should suffice: Did Africa have any significance in the Cold War? [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ju3e3/did_a... 'The Effects of the (End of the) Cold War on Central African Politics: How a Cold War turned into a very Hot One' [http://www.mo.be/en/article/effects-end-cold-war-central-afr...]. Of course, this does not free Africa's leadership from the responsibility of good governance, but it does add context to coldtea's argument.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#39

Post by donretag » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #37

donretag wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could talk a lot about Africa. Loved it. Everything is off the beaten path, which is why I loved it. Outside of the known spots (Egypt and the northern countries, South Africa), there is no mass tourism. No bus loads of tourists that start taking pictures as soon as they step off. Zim was unique. At that point, I already spent almost two months in East Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi), and my entrance (int…

Great, thanks.

If you are still reading these comments, why Zimbabwe in particular? Nothing wrong with the country, but most landlocked countries do not attractive to much attention.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#40

Post by donretag » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:02 PM UTC

iamjeff wrote: post #36

donretag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cleanliness had a different meaning over there. Everyone's house and place of business was very clean. Spotless. However, they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street. As long as it was not in there house, it was fine. Bizarre. Food wrappers everywhere. Empty bags of 100ml alcohol (Konyagi, etc) everywhere. I traveled by public means and the view of the roads did not leave of good impression. Do…

>they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street Yes, this has been my experience. It is simply hilarious. >Konyagi Yeah, ain't that a sight. By "bags" you surely meant plastic bottles, no?

Bags, definitely bags: http://i.imgur.com/W1hL4Tx.jpg

I only saw them in East Africa. The streets were littered with them. Very cheap and poor tasting. Basically ethanol and flavoring. Konyagi & juice. Disgusting, but I wish I was back on the beaches of Zanibar having a few.