Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#21

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

happyslobro wrote: post #11

ZenoArrow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a…

Why do you assume that there's at most one good leader?

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#22

Post by okaram » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 8:18 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #10

yxhuvud wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

Mexico does (not sure what you count as developed countries :). I think most non-parliamentarian democracies do.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#23

Post by happyslobro » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 8:41 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #21

happyslobro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a…

Why do you assume that there's at most one good leader?

Because I'm an incorrigible optimist? No but seriously, do you have any anecdotes regarding an election where a difficult choice had to be made between multiple good (from the perspective of a large majority) candidates? Because I don't (Canadian, in my 30s).

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#24

Post by happyslobro » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #21

happyslobro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a…

Why do you assume that there's at most one good leader?

The problem that I was referring to above, is that a good leader might be able to rule for 40 years, if there were no term limits. Leaders who are worthy of that privilege / burden are so rare though, that if you eliminate on just because of an arbitrary limit, then they will likely be replaced by some worse than them. Bad rulers are unlikely to win a third term in the first place, assuming that the electoral system is working.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#25

Post by ddebernardy » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

incrediblygood wrote: post #14

ddebernardy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developed countries almost all have some form of term limits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limit...

In a lot of the cases listed there, the term limits mean that a new election must be held every X years, but not that the party/prime minister/president cannot be reelected. So it's not quite the same as in the US.

Err, no. If you browse around Europe (and elsewhere) you'll see a lot things along the lines of no more than two consecutive terms.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#26

Post by donretag » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #16

donretag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only c…

Serious q, I've never been in Africa: what is there to do in Zim to have a good time? Did you go on safari or somerhing similar, or are there off-the-beaten-track things to do (without knowing locals) that are relatively safe to do?

I could talk a lot about Africa. Loved it. Everything is off the beaten path, which is why I loved it. Outside of the known spots (Egypt and the northern countries, South Africa), there is no mass tourism. No bus loads of tourists that start taking pictures as soon as they step off.

Zim was unique. At that point, I already spent almost two months in East Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi), and my entrance (into Harare) was an eye-opener. A saw white people. Not tourists or the occasional white person, but actual residents. Lots of them. They had nice cars and went into nice stores. Good luck finding stores in East Africa.

Technically, my first stop in Zim was the Chimanimani Mountains. Lovely day hike. But it was on the border with Mozambique (I only traveled through Moz) so it felt the same.

Harare was a nice enough capital. I was amazed that the national museum was actually selling the art it was showing. Amazing pieces for great prices. If I was not traveling for months (and I actually had a home), I would have purchased some art. Amazing sculptures. Zim had the best sculptures, Malawi the best wood cravers. Went to a jazz club, more first show in Africa.

I did not do any safaris in Zim (did them in Uganda, Tanzania and Namibia), but I went to a place called Antelope Park. I had mixed feelings about it.

The great Zim ruins were interesting because it is the oldest manmade structure in sub-Saharan Africa. Nothing else of its kind on the entire southern half of Africa.

Took an overnight train from Bulawayo to Vic Falls. Slow. Decripit. Beer was $1 (cheaper than a supermarket) and we finished their entire stock. Plus our liquor. They called ahead to get more at another stop and we finished that as well. Fun fun times.

Victoria Falls of course was amazing.

I highly suggest going to Africa for vacation. I dream about going back. Was more of a fan of Southern Africa over East Africa.

Overall I felt safe in Zimbabwe. Better than Cape Town and forget about Jo'burg.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#27

Post by throwaway201606 » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #18

SoftwarePatent wrote: post #13

This journalist [1] wrote a great book [2] about the lack of press freedom in Rwanda, and western complicity in press crackdowns. He's an amazing guy--accepted a job at Goldman during college, then reneged on the job to fly one-way to Africa and become a freelance journalist. That's without any experience as a journalist! [1] https://twitter.com/anjansun [2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/11/bad-news-last…

Gets worse than that actually. Much of this "prosperity" is driven by warlords stealing resources from places like Eastern Congo. And that's where everything Rwandan gets really nasty. A guy named Laurent Nkunda once cleared an entire city of roughly 75 000 people. (Goma. Many of those were running so fast that children and the elderly were left behind. Which made for some pretty sad sights in the aftermath.) I had a…

It is my opinion that it is a terrible statement on current affairs that this comment is ranked so high.

While all the things said here are true, they: a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990 ( http://abt.cm/QNKiYt ) b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand (Rwanda and its place in the current technology marketplace)

In my mind, a similar example might be reading something about say, for example the state of technology in Kenya and the top comment being about what happened there during the Mau Mau uprising. Yes, the correct would be factually accurate but that time does not represent the country today. And, most of all, WTF really? Stop with red herrings. The country is working like crazy to grow and develop and instead of "nice job getting from a where you were to b today", all you can offer is "yeah, but your dad and mom did terrible things 20 years ago".

Almost every nation in the world, developed or not, has parts of its history where its' peoples and governments did things - that they now deeply regret and would rather forget - as part of becoming the nations that they are today. It just happens that some, not all, African nations are going through those things in our lifetime.

We need to be fair in our positioning and evaluation of others especially if we perceive that they are making their way out of being on the low end of our assessment curve. No need to introduce extra huddles of history to the information we share especially if those hurdles are not contextually relevant.

Finally, the last sentence in that comment is worth some disassembly. - The first part: "Rwandans do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth. But I suppose it's easy to overlook that stuff if you're making money. And to be fair... a LOT of people in Africa do these things. Of course, we don't usually do business with those people."

Please share some evidence around this. Else, STFU with opinions that hold no ground. And even if it were true, how is it different from, for example, the way western economies deal with African and Middle East nations that have natural resources they are looking for. Don't these economies do "do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth" Should Africa make a decision along the lines of " Of course, we don't usually do business with those people."?

My two cents, definitely written while wearing my heart on my sleeve.

Saved a screenshot of your quote on img just in case it goes AWOL because don't want to end up sounding like a nutjob if if it does. Link to original quote here http://imgur.com/aYjzkUE

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#28

Post by donretag » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 9:15 PM UTC

iamjeff wrote: post #20

donretag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only c…

>Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive Indeed, you will find very few that would argue with that. Also, there are clear economic and social benefits to little/no corruption. However, Rwanda's good fortune in fighting corruption in a sea of systemically corrupt countries (the neighboring DRC and Burundi are notoriously corrupt, but that still pales in comparison to Kenya, a country that hosts numerous…

I must mention that I did not go to Kenya or other neighboring countries. I started my trip in Uganda and worked my way down.

The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania as an outsider is immense. The roads are in good condition and there are no speed bumps because the drivers are not reckless. Bodaboda drivers will give you helmets! (granted, they probably are so old that offer no protection). Little trash on the streets. Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries.

I briefly mentioned that genocide and only because of the context of economics. Rwanda derives a fair amount of money from the UN and other international grants post-genocide. I met a fair amount of volunteers because of these programs. I found that the current government has down a decent amount to recognize the genocide. There are memorials at most mass burial cites. The genocide museum is very well done. It is not the Rwanda genocide museum, but simply a genocide museum. It covers all the genocides in recent history. Ultimately, there was little to do in Rwanda (a 4 hour nature hike was $50!), so I left after 6-7 days. Spent most of it relaxing by Lake Kivu.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#29

Post by ZenoArrow » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

ddebernardy wrote: post #25

incrediblygood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of the cases listed there, the term limits mean that a new election must be held every X years, but not that the party/prime minister/president cannot be reelected. So it's not quite the same as in the US.

Err, no. If you browse around Europe (and elsewhere) you'll see a lot things along the lines of no more than two consecutive terms.

Depends on your definition of leader. For example, in Germany the President can only serve 2 terms, but the Chancellor has no such limit, and the Chancellor appears to have a much greater role in day-to-day politics. Many people in Europe are familiar with Angela Merkel. Same recognition for Joachim Gauck? Not so much. His role appears to be more of a figurehead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Gauck

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#30

Post by bilbo0s » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

throwaway201606 wrote: post #27

bilbo0s wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gets worse than that actually. Much of this "prosperity" is driven by warlords stealing resources from places like Eastern Congo. And that's where everything Rwandan gets really nasty. A guy named Laurent Nkunda once cleared an entire city of roughly 75 000 people. (Goma. Many of those were running so fast that children and the elderly were left behind. Which made for some pretty sad sights in the aftermath.) I had a…

It is my opinion that it is a terrible statement on current affairs that this comment is ranked so high. While all the things said here are true, they: a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990 ( http://abt.cm/QNKiYt ) b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand (Rwanda and its place in the current technology marketplace) In my mind, a similar example might be reading something about say, for example th…

"...a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990..."

Nice try. Goma was cleared in fighting during the Nord-Kivu clashes in 2008. (Nkunda's forces opposed Army of DRCongo and UN Peacemaker contingent of roughly 17000.) Additionally, the theft of Congolese resources is ongoing.

"...b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand..."

That depends on how one thinks.

Finally, with respect to the duplicity of Western Nations. You will get no argument from me. That doesn't make African nations less duplicitous though. The white man is not the only force for evil on the globe. Evil comes in all shades and hues.