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Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

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Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a visionary leader should be able to initiate multi-generation projects and see them through to completion.

Is this a scheme to prevent the members of a two party system from coalescing into a single party?

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

Developed countries almost all have some form of term limits:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limit...

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#13
This journalist [1] wrote a great book [2] about the lack of press freedom in Rwanda, and western complicity in press crackdowns. He's an amazing guy--accepted a job at Goldman during college, then reneged on the job to fly one-way to Africa and become a freelance journalist. That's without any experience as a journalist!

[1] https://twitter.com/anjansun

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/11/bad-news-last-...

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

Developed countries almost all have some form of term limits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limit...

In a lot of the cases listed there, the term limits mean that a new election must be held every X years, but not that the party/prime minister/president cannot be reelected. So it's not quite the same as in the US.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

The parent comment by yxhuvud mentioned Kekkonen in Finland. He was the president for about 25 years in the '60s and '70s.

That concentration of power was so traumatic to the political system that, for the next 20 years, a long sequence of steps were taken to prevent it from happening again. Presidential terms were limited to a maximum of two, and the constitution was eventually rewritten in a direction that removed the presidential powers that Kekkonen used (and abused) to override parliament.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#16
post #9
post #2

Not mentioned in article: - President has successfully used a referendum to grant himself third term powers, if next year's election goes his way (likely) - Lots of surveillance (skype/whatsapp eavesdropping) by govt via telecom compliance - President has lots of stock in telecoms

Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only c…

Serious q, I've never been in Africa: what is there to do in Zim to have a good time? Did you go on safari or somerhing similar, or are there off-the-beaten-track things to do (without knowing locals) that are relatively safe to do?

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

The parent comment by yxhuvud mentioned Kekkonen in Finland. He was the president for about 25 years in the '60s and '70s. That concentration of power was so traumatic to the political system that, for the next 20 years, a long sequence of steps were taken to prevent it from happening again. Presidential terms were limited to a maximum of two, and the constitution was eventually rewritten in a direction that removed…

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I basically said that I thought having a maximum length of service was a good idea, but I didn't think two terms was the right target. Perhaps three terms would be a better target. The reason I think three terms is better is that you want the leader to have to face up to their own mistakes. It strikes me that with one or two terms there's still a tendency to blame your predecessors for the state of the country rather than accepting responsibility for the cock ups.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#18

This journalist [1] wrote a great book [2] about the lack of press freedom in Rwanda, and western complicity in press crackdowns. He's an amazing guy--accepted a job at Goldman during college, then reneged on the job to fly one-way to Africa and become a freelance journalist. That's without any experience as a journalist! [1] https://twitter.com/anjansun [2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/11/bad-news-last…

Gets worse than that actually. Much of this "prosperity" is driven by warlords stealing resources from places like Eastern Congo. And that's where everything Rwandan gets really nasty.

A guy named Laurent Nkunda once cleared an entire city of roughly 75 000 people. (Goma. Many of those were running so fast that children and the elderly were left behind. Which made for some pretty sad sights in the aftermath.)

I had a Swiss friend who was an observer (UN) in Congo and had to come stay with us in Houston to decompress before going back to her family in Lausanne. She had the misfortune of being assigned an inspection tour in the East. She toured the Congo Army lines... fine ... no major problems. As she approached the lines of Nkunda's forces she saw a wall built from dead bodies... and the wall was topped with the heads. Yeah... it only got worse from there.

Rwandans do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth. But I suppose it's easy to overlook that stuff if you're making money. And to be fair... a LOT of people in Africa do these things. Of course, we don't usually do business with those people.

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.

I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a…

Yes, it's a safety valve to guard against dysfunctional democracies. It's a compromise, and yes you will limit the service of both good and bad leaders, but that doesn't make the compromise any less valid. Many people fear change, and don't like to admit they made a mistake, and base a lot of their vote on personality rather than achievement, and as a result of these factors people can keep voting for someone even if they do a poor or mediocre job.

I personally believe the best form of democracy would be something along the lines of a liquid democracy, coupled with a constitution that protected the rights of everyone (to ensure those with minority viewpoints would always be entitled to a base level of respect). If you're interested in finding out about liquid democracy, this video provides a good introduction:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8

Re: Rwanda is becoming a hub for expanding tech companies

#20
post #9
post #2

Not mentioned in article: - President has successfully used a referendum to grant himself third term powers, if next year's election goes his way (likely) - Lots of surveillance (skype/whatsapp eavesdropping) by govt via telecom compliance - President has lots of stock in telecoms

Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only c…

>Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive

Indeed, you will find very few that would argue with that. Also, there are clear economic and social benefits to little/no corruption. However, Rwanda's good fortune in fighting corruption in a sea of systemically corrupt countries (the neighboring DRC and Burundi are notoriously corrupt, but that still pales in comparison to Kenya, a country that hosts numerous Rwandan nationals) stems almost purely from the political will of one man- Paul Kagame. Without the political authority and moral mandate that he wields, these anti-corruption policies would be no more effective than they are in countries across East Africa (Somalia, South Sudan, Burundi, DRC, Uganda, and Kenya are among SSA's most corrupt countries, and all are within 3-hour flights from Kigali; this shared geography also means that East African countries have shared political, social, and economic fortunes/identity. For instance, numerous Rwandan citizens see Kenya/Uganda as a second home. For example, my childhood pastor was Rwandan and so were many of those that I went to primary school with. I say this to emphasize the fact that Rwanda is not uniquely tooled to fight corruption, just uniquely ruled).

>find a proper black middle class

I doubt Rwanda is the only EA country with a proper middle class. I also doubt that any such middle case would (entirely) owe its very existence to anti-corruption policies. A far, far larger percentage of Kenyans fall within the ADB's classification of middle income than their Rwandan counterparts. Kenya is a significant (if not the most significant) source of foreign direct investment to Rwanda. In addition, Kenya also has the highest per capita car ownership anywhere in this part of the world. I am really not trashing Rwanda, just saying that when put in perspective, the country still has a long way to go.

You did not mention the genocide or the country's attempts to recover from it. Perhaps there is something to be said of the matter. Over 100,000 people lost their lives in 100 days at the hands of neighbors, students/teachers, relatives, etc. The shock of the genocide is something that,as a Kenyan, I can relate to. Not too long ago (2008-09), over 1,000 people lost their lives to post-election violence. In the aftermath, a coalition government was formed, a new and superlatively progressive constitution promulgated, land reform enacted, and former adversaries became formidable political partners. A lot has yet to change, but the impact of those clashes can still be felt to this day. Rwanda rebounded by centralizing power in an evidently aggressive and autocratic political leadership: 'contrarians' were exiled and speech constrained/censored. For instance, it is anathema to explore the role that Kagame's Rwanda Patriotic Front played in the '94 genocide. The revisionism of the present government has become an important concern, but only for those outside the country's borders (or reach). This response is somewhat comparable to China's efforts at enforcing a sanctioned narrative around the Tiananmen protests and killings and is not a sustainable path to enduring peace. Surprisingly, this is something that I am seeing more of in Kenya, where two of the chief adversaries in the post-election violence are now political incumbents. That said, Rwanda has made an impressive social and economic recovery from the unimaginable tragedy that it suffered two decades ago. Regardless, it is far from becoming the sought of tech hub that CNN and others would like us to believe.

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