Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 375 posts

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#341

Post by tajen »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #306
tajen wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those military gained access to aircrafts, bombs and their activation systems, which they used to bomb the parliament and seemingly many other targets in Ankara and Istambul. Makes you wonder how safe is Europe. > The only problem is Erdogan has many hardline islamic fanatics to help m... Ahem, really, how safe is Europe if, for example, France decided that we have an Islamisation/integration problem, and started…

I wish it were that simple. The problem is that Turkey is not changing up civilian control. They've had Erdogen for what? 13 years? That's not a healthy system. That's a system where one bunch is running the tables. Such systems always lead to much worse than military coups. Anybody checked out Venezuela lately? There's probably been some support for IS coming from Turkey, although not from the military. Turkey is a…

You win ;)

As a side note, French presidents were elected for 7 years x2, which makes 14 years for Mitterand (1981-1995) and 12 for Chirac (1995-2007). But at least PMs change and they can't renew again.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#342

Post by blahi »

gkya wrote: post #331
blahi wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah a dictator oppressing media and opposition definitely fits the EU, you are right and I am ignorant.

Turkey's EU negotiations started in AFAIK 1958. My country does not consist of Erdoğan. Let aside membership, if sincerity and welcomeness was shown, fundamentalists wouldn't be able to do more than dwell some mosques here. And, Orban?

Oh so now the EU is at fault for problems in Turkey? This is, what, the 6th coup d'etat in Turkey since the second world war? How do you expect the EU to accept such an unstable country? Turkey has had a problem keeping the secular regime since Ataturk. You are obviously not ready. Islam is obviously not ready to take a backseat and let democracy do its thing. And if Turkey isn't ready, no Islamic country is ready.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#343

Post by ThomPete »

jokoon wrote: post #339
ThomPete wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you mean. The original comment was that it's ironic that Ergodan who is against social media (and thus block as much as he can) was using the very social media to stop the attempt. How does that turn into "it's easy to talk about free speech technologies..." ?

I'm kinda tired of constantly reading about free speech and its virtues, and how people who don't have that culture are somehow backward. I know free speech is a good thing, but when you venture in the middle east, free speech doesn't matter because there is much less public order. Politicians know that people don't have this culture of free speech and must act accordingly. Outside of the US, people don't consider us…

Then don't read it. Thats the freedom you have contrary to those living in Turkey who don't even get to read about it.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#344

Post by gkya »

blahi wrote: post #342
gkya wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey's EU negotiations started in AFAIK 1958. My country does not consist of Erdoğan. Let aside membership, if sincerity and welcomeness was shown, fundamentalists wouldn't be able to do more than dwell some mosques here. And, Orban?

Oh so now the EU is at fault for problems in Turkey? This is, what, the 6th coup d'etat in Turkey since the second world war? How do you expect the EU to accept such an unstable country? Turkey has had a problem keeping the secular regime since Ataturk. You are obviously not ready. Islam is obviously not ready to take a backseat and let democracy do its thing. And if Turkey isn't ready, no Islamic country is ready.

The EU is not at fault, but could've helped positive progress. But in your comments I can see why that hasn't been possible.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#345

Post by afarrell »

RCortex wrote: post #311
afarrell wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put their constituents in harms way. Such is the way of leaders throughout history. For instance, Rev. Dr. King deliberately had teenagers get assaulted with dogs, water cannon, and truncheons as a tactic for getting media attention.

Gonna need a source for that.

Hmmm, it occurs to me that I don't actually have a good introductory source for someone new to learning about the US civil rights movement of the 50s/60s.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#346

Post by jokoon »

ThomPete wrote: post #343
jokoon wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kinda tired of constantly reading about free speech and its virtues, and how people who don't have that culture are somehow backward. I know free speech is a good thing, but when you venture in the middle east, free speech doesn't matter because there is much less public order. Politicians know that people don't have this culture of free speech and must act accordingly. Outside of the US, people don't consider us…

Then don't read it. Thats the freedom you have contrary to those living in Turkey who don't even get to read about it.

That good sweet freedom. Are you telling me to just unread it ?

Sure I could ignore it, but I'm free to not ignore it and to answer.

> contrary to those living in Turkey who don't even get to read about it.

There are worse examples than turkey. Pointing out that every problem there are in the world are caused by a lack of freedom is easy. Freedom is more a progress of culture than anything else. I don't think it would solve Turkey's problems in a day to just have access to hacker news and the whole internet. Don't forget about propaganda machines and misinformation.

Granted that in ideal, I'm not right, but foreign politics are not your average rubik's cube. It's not the first time the US will be criticized for pretending that freedom is the solution for all of the ills in the world.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#347

Post by rspeer »

bArray wrote: post #272
mortehu wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Bosnia and Herzegovina? They're 51% muslim and have applied to join EU earlier this year.

I think the topic was Turkey - honestly I don't know enough about those Countries to make a comment on them. If they're modernised and meet the criteria, then we should certainly look to bring them in slowly. It may be a mistake to rush the process.

To be clear, Bosnia and Herzegovina is one country.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#349

Post by tim333 »

tim333 wrote: post #304
geverett wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. For context: wince the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923, there have been periodic military coups, notably in 1960, 1980, and 1997. The army's stated purpose has always been to 'preserve the constitution and democracy', as it is this time. While I'm not in favor of the use of violent force to unseat a democratically elected government, the current government in Turkey is anything but. Recep…

Shame really. I guess we now have president for life Erdogan for two or three decades.

Some more from Zero Hedge - The Counter-Coup Begins: Erdogan Purges 2,745 Judges, Prosecutors; Arrests Hundreds

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-16/erdogans-counter-co...

Also some arguing it was a false flag operation https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/4t2pso/this_coup_re...

Dunno but something seems a bit off to me. How did they have a list of 2,745 judges to purge and 140 appeals court members to arrest the next morning? You'd think it'd take some time to figure that stuff if they hadn't been planning it.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#350

Post by blahi »

gkya wrote: post #344
blahi wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh so now the EU is at fault for problems in Turkey? This is, what, the 6th coup d'etat in Turkey since the second world war? How do you expect the EU to accept such an unstable country? Turkey has had a problem keeping the secular regime since Ataturk. You are obviously not ready. Islam is obviously not ready to take a backseat and let democracy do its thing. And if Turkey isn't ready, no Islamic country is ready.

The EU is not at fault, but could've helped positive progress. But in your comments I can see why that hasn't been possible.

It hasn't been possible because the military changes the regime every 10 years. If the EU goes and backs up one guy, this will polarize the next guy. Get your shit together and then ask for help.
Post reply on HN