Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed • Hacker News Board

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#201

Post by herbst » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:46 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #179

herbst wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what every big war nation does, except usually OUTSIDE their own country, with people they have no relation with. Not saying it's good, but if a country decides to kill its own people to fix some problems, that is somehow suddenly a huge topic while other nations invade other countries and kill more civilians than terrorists?

The thing you're mentioning is also a huge discussion topic and widely disapproved when it happens. So your point is kind of irrelevant.

It happens every other day. when not today then yesterday. This issue is widely ignored at first, and then used for political statements when suiteable.

There is barely objective media coverage about this in western countries as well.

Edit:// also this guy does exactly what he was voted for. while the war nations do what they want without democratic process

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#202

Post by douche » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:50 AM UTC

pedalpete wrote: post #84

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

Ok, let's look at this on an even playing field, which should be very doable with the atrocities befalling the US and somewhat indiscriminate killing of African Americans. Note: I'm not American and don't live in the US. African Americans have been killed by police, imprisoned as almost a racial policy (often resulting from petty drug offenses). So let's say there are an equal number of people killed on each side. 30…

Tragedies that have been wildly pumped up by various elements, to even more tragic results.

I've already seen three or four black men killed by other black men just this morning on the Boston news, and that's just since yesterday. Nobody is out in the streets over that.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#203

Post by viraptor » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:52 AM UTC

geowwy wrote: post #25

libeclipse wrote: post #2

Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.

Seems crazy but people of the Philippines knew what they were voting for. This is exactly what he did when he was mayor of Davao: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_may... To play devil's advocate: Drugs and the criminal networks supported by drugs are a massive problem in the Philippines. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does off…

I think I understand why people agree with this course of action. I get why at some point you'd be for a proper cleanup of the place you live in.

The main problem I see with it though is that soon someone will say you are a drug dealer. Or that weird people are coming to your house. Or that at some point the actual evil people will arrange drug deals near people they want to get rid of. And then you'll really want a fair process. If you start a red scare equivalent, then suddenly every neighbour may be a communist.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#204

Post by evgen » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:54 AM UTC

bubuga wrote: post #90

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

> As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. Pray tell, what context justifies arbitrary lynchings, summary executions, extrajudicial capital punishment, and an overall disrespect for human life? Perhaps it's the view from the high horse I'm sitting on, but when I look throughout europe I don't see nations with major dr…

Pray tell, what context justifies arbitrary lynchings, summary executions, extrajudicial capital punishment, and an overall disrespect for human life?

Probably the same one that justifies invading countries on flimsy excuses, setting up your own local dictator, and then continuingto bomb the shit out of people when things do not go as you promised your subjects. Shall we roll the clock back a bit and talk about the wonderful "arbitrary lynchings, summary executions, extrajudicial capital punishment, and an overall disrespect for human life" that were the hallmarks of European colonialism?

Perhaps it's the view from the high horse I'm sitting on, but when I look throughout europe I don't see nations with major drug problems, and they haven't fixed any problems they had with assassinations.

Your high horse stands upon a hill of corpses. When I look throughout Europe I see nations that have spent millenia creating problems for other people outside Europe, then washing thier hands of the problem when no one is looking, moralizing to each other about those poor stupid brown people, and then repeating the process.

Physician, heal thyself or STFU.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#205

Post by meira » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:54 AM UTC

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #163

tomp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" That's quite an irrational leap from what he said... It could also be: "We've tried all this before, we know democracy works better, so we suggest you implement it as well."

"We suggest..?" Lol Tell that to the people who had democracy bombed into them.

Austrália and US are a great example of democracy and miscegenation. Bad lucky to the "rhodesian people", they didn't killed enough natives to win the land and Institute "democracy".

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#206

Post by meira » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:58 AM UTC

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #139

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You…

> Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. > "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" And you've just proved my point about democracy and human rights being dismissed as Western colonialism. What's your alternative to democracy and human rights? A dictatorship that can have anyone it dislikes executed? Colonialism might ha…

Let's get to some definitions here. Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#207

Post by krrrh » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:59 AM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #50

deanCommie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sic…

UBI will not happen. Not because free money are not good for the people — they are. Not because everyone will suddenly get lazy and stop working — they won't. Because UBI is unsustainable and won't last more than a year. There is not enough money for any plausible scenario. That's why. And yes, let's give people "free" money and do nothing about hugely overpriced and corrupt healthcare system, education and things. I…

I upvoted you because you're right with regards to UBI as it's argued for in places like this forum. The same arguments were true the first time these ideas were proposed when it was called Social Credit. However, I suspect that replacing patchwork welfare and social programs with a simplified negative income tax[1] or expansion of the earned income tax credit is a plausible path that could lead towards something like a UBI. This would be welfare-level support, not provide a 'living wage', and not pay out money to anyone who was earning above a basic threshold (at which point they would be paying a positive income tax, just like today).

Once something like this is in place I could see the needle being moved over time if the sort of automation that machines give us in the coming decades really is categorically different from the sort of automation that machines have given us in the past 2 centuries (debatable).

[1] http://www.economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/11...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#208

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:59 AM UTC

jister wrote: post #185

caf wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the guy that was found shot to death with a sign on him saying "I am a Chinese drug lord" was definitely killed as part of a completely-above-board judicial process.

He wasn't shot by the cops so that means he could be shot by THE BOSS, vigilante or his partner. Who knows...

> THE BOSS, vigilante or his partner. Who knows...

You don't see a problem with that?

How do you know he even was a drug lord (other than that conspicuous sign)?

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#209

Post by thomasfoster96 » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 11:01 AM UTC

meira wrote: post #206

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. > "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" And you've just proved my point about democracy and human rights being dismissed as Western colonialism. What's your alternative to democracy and human rights? A dictatorship that can have anyone it dislikes executed? Colonialism might ha…

Let's get to some definitions here. Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?

> Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?

I assume you're referring to America. And my answer would be that yes, as abhorrent as segregation, drone strikes and backing coups in other countries is, that doesn't nullify the elections held within that country. It's still a democracy.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#210

Post by pluma » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 11:02 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #194

croon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you say, apart from a part at the end. > ... and neither of them is going to openly do stupid drastic things like telling civilians to murder other people in the streets. Sure, that's valid. But while I'm no fan of Hillary, she is, as you said, cold and calculating, which I posit as the major difference between the two. Trump is hotheaded and impulsive, and while we'll never see him (knock on…

Trump just seems to say what his target demographic want to hear. Take the last mass shooting, he came out with the classic rhetoric : "If everyone had guns..." and the crowd cheered. If his target audience believed that killing drug dealers was a good idea, Trump would say it.

True but what presidential nominees are willing to say has very little to do with what they will do if elected. The biggest danger of Trump is probably that he doesn't seem to have any consistent agenda.

Clinton seems rather straightforward: you can look back at her political career and what she did as Secretary of State to figure out where she's headed; you have no such luxury with Trump.