Tesla confirms “Autopilot” crash in Montana

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 6:43 AM UTC

studentrob wrote: post #160

Animats wrote: post #109

With three accidents on "autopilot" in a short period, the defects in Tesla's design are becoming clear. 1. Tesla's "hands on wheel" enforcement is much weaker than their competitors. BMW, Volvo, and Mercedes have similar systems, but after a few seconds of hands-off-wheel, the vehicle will start to slow. Tesla allows minutes of hands-off time; one customer reports driving 50 miles without touching the wheel. Tesla i…

> In comparison, when a Google self-driving car bumped a bus at 2mph, Google admitted fault, took the blame, and Urmson gave a talk at SXSW showing the data from the sensors and discussing how the self-driving car misjudged the likely behavior of the bus. This is what we should be trumpeting. Responsibility, honesty, and transparency. Google's self driving car project reports [1] should be the standard. They're publi…

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 6:45 AM UTC

studentrob wrote: post #120

ghaff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much that full autonomy is impossible. We "fire and forget" many type of systems with no possibility of human intervention--at least not in a timely manner. What you can't do is start an automated process, comforting yourself that an inattentive human can always take over in a split-second if the automation messes up.

> We "fire and forget" many type of systems with no possibility of human intervention--at least not in a timely manner Practically speaking, I agree with what you're saying. For autonomous systems as we think of them today, humans can set them and walk away. Philosophically, if I throw a ball into space, is its continued movement autonomous? Kicking off a computer program is just a complex ball. We don't have true ra…

Post by taejo » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 6:47 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #140

cperciva wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike crash is disturbing, because it's the case the "autopilot" is supposed to handle - divided limited-access highway under good conditions. The vehicle hit a guard rail on the side of the road. That may have been an system failure. Too soon to tell. This is the one I'm very interested to hear more about. From what I've heard, Tesla's self-driving is very aggressive in swerving to avoid obstacle…

> or in fact a legitimate reason to swerve? Reasoning about what's legitimate can be a really fine line. Oncoming car, raccoon, fawn, human, doe, coyote, elk: some of these obstacles might actually be net-safer to not swerve around [perhaps depending on speed]. I'd be really curious if any of the autopilots have a value system that tries to minimize damage/loss of life. And how does it value the exterior obstacle aga…

Post by jedmeyers » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 6:49 AM UTC

kirrent wrote: post #158

witty_username wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilots (require certification and extensive training) are different from car drivers.

No doubt, but both groups need to supervise their Autopilots because autopilots of any kind have always been supervised. That's the point the grandparent is making.

Post by studentrob » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 6:51 AM UTC

Corrado wrote: post #173

lucb1e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the whole autopilot feature is silly if you need to keep your hands on the wheel. Then you might as well steer yourself, or am I missing something? (I don't know details about this feature, I just know it steers automatically on highways.) Until full driver attention is no longer needed, enabling "autopilot" and saying in the manual "PS. you still need to stay as alert as you normally would and keep your hands o…

I think the value of "autopilot" for me would come in increased awareness when my attention is fading. When I'm coming home at 2AM from a gig and the road is long, straight, flat, and boring, my attention wanders. Sure, I start out strong, but soon my eyes just don't focus correctly anymore. I roll down the windows and turn up the radio to stay awake but sometimes I don't realize how I got from here to there. That 30…