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UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

theguardian.com

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Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#181

Post by barrkel »

sievebrain wrote: post #152
DasIch wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has compromised, especially with the UK, on a lot of things.

In the past when it was smaller, yes. Nowadays, not so much. Perhaps that's Juncker, or perhaps it's the fact that it's now so large. See how Cameron's negotiation went (or rather, didn't). Besides, most of the compromises were simply not forcing the UK to do new things. That's only seen as a compromise because the EU is run by people who believe every member should be forcibly 'harmonised' through automatic implemen…

If you don't mandate implementation, you don't have a level playing field; you have a race to the bottom on everything from tax levels to working laws to product standards. Game theoretically, everybody loses in a race to the bottom.

There would be no point in an EU that couldn't mandate laws.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#182

Post by djlastword »

dekhn wrote: post #15
jarito wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It discusses this in the article. The challenge here is related to funding that is primary delivered by the EU structures. Now that the UK is leaving the EU, there is some concern that projects that contain UK representation, or are lead by UK researchers, will not be funded on time. This is due to the confusion around what Brexit will mean, how long it will take, how far it will go and what agreements the EU and UK…

Right, but while there is confusion and lack of clarity, it's not clear that immediately removing UK investigators is appropriate. Some amount of this is just petulance or telegraphing unhappiness, rather than rational decision making.

Since when were people rational? The PR effects alone are reason to break ties with the UK, similar to the situation with Panama after the Panama Papers. I'm already asking international vendors to setup corporate entities in an EU country instead to keep business as usual. When discussing this only from an EU negotiation perspective I think you're missing the psychological impact Brexit has had on us Europeans (Yes I understand many Brits still consider UK a part of Europe but so does Russia so...). If they want to leave, let them leave. It's over. Good luck, have fun.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#183

Post by roymurdock »

flexie wrote: post #122
wrong_variable wrote: post #19

Large Multinationals like Unilever, even for incremental decisions - like changing the type of light bulb, takes years to execute. This is why a large change in their business is so difficult and you need a very good CEO ( ask Marissa Mayer ) The decision UK made to leave the EU is akin for Unilever to switch from selling shampoos to selling software - and we are not talking about a multinational with 100,000 employe…

I talked to a senior diplomat recently. He said that when talking to diplomats from China, Russia, the US in the beginning of his career some 30 years ago, nobody asked about the EU opinion on issues. In the last 10 years, however, he never heard "what does Britain or France or Germany think about XYZ" but only "What does the EU think". What some leavers don't realise is that the entire world had gotten used to deali…

So politicians will stop asking "What does the EU think" and go back to asking "What do Germany, France, and the UK think, and are they in agreement"?

The distinction is less important than you think, because the second question gets at the heart of the issue and naturally follows the first. Unlike the US, The EU does not have a strong executive/legislative/judicial (and perhaps more-importantly, a shared language/national history) backbone that ties the member states together.

Also, the UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world by GDP ($2.8T). It may be 1/7 the size of the US economy and 1/4 the size of the Chinese economy, but it's hardly going to be ignored.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#184

Post by pjc50 »

raugustinus wrote: post #113
diego_moita wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth Just wait and see what "destroying wealth" means. England gave up on producing food during the Industrial Revolution, gave up on imperial colonialism after WWII and gave up on manufacturing after Thatcher. Now it is giving up on the services economy. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it. Edit: Britain is not a paragon of fiscal resp…

How is the UK giving up on the services economy?

Possible ending of free movement of people? Possible emigration of the finance industry because of that and because of loss of institutional "passporting"?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#185

Post by throwaway-hn123 »

tosseraccount wrote: post #51
codecurve wrote: post #25

I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research funding stops, those opportunities will be gone forever for future students coming through the department. There aren't enough large tech companies in the area for there to be any sponsored degrees available, which probably means that when the funding finishes, the…

Private, endowment and British funds can make up for the EU. Getting out from under EU regulations and negotiating as a free agent is a better deal for most Brits. [ edit: must have touched a nerve. +1 to -4 in an instant. ]

> [ edit: must have touched a nerve. +1 to -4 in an instant. ]

Or perhaps people simply disagree with you, tosser.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#186

Post by bpyne »

flexie wrote: post #122
wrong_variable wrote: post #19

Large Multinationals like Unilever, even for incremental decisions - like changing the type of light bulb, takes years to execute. This is why a large change in their business is so difficult and you need a very good CEO ( ask Marissa Mayer ) The decision UK made to leave the EU is akin for Unilever to switch from selling shampoos to selling software - and we are not talking about a multinational with 100,000 employe…

I talked to a senior diplomat recently. He said that when talking to diplomats from China, Russia, the US in the beginning of his career some 30 years ago, nobody asked about the EU opinion on issues. In the last 10 years, however, he never heard "what does Britain or France or Germany think about XYZ" but only "What does the EU think". What some leavers don't realise is that the entire world had gotten used to deali…

I know little of Britain's political system. If Article 50 isn't being invoked until the end of the year, can Britain have another national vote on Brexit before then?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#187

Post by orf »

endeavour wrote: post #159
wrong_variable wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide some examples of countries striking better trade deals. Its also two things negotiators and knowing your strengths. The world's best negotiators wont be able help you very much if you do not have much to offer. Also I am skeptical of your assertion that anyone could write trade deals. It requires a very deep understanding of economics, international finance, geopolitics and a bunch of other topics -…

Chile, Switzerland and Iceland all have free trade agreements with China. The EU doesn't.

Are you saying "any trade deal is better than no trade deal?". Just because the EU doesn't have one with China doesn't mean Switzerland's deal is better.... than a deal that doesn't exist.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#188

Post by endeavour »

2skep wrote: post #47
ckinnan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

As a result of majority voters voting in favour of Brexit and to recover the democratic deficit and negotiate UK's exit from the EU a new PM has been appointed who did not support Leave. She was selected by Westminster which is largely supportive of Remain It would be very hard not to conclude that it is actually Westminster that is retarding democracy.

I happen to agree we should have an election, but I would point out:

1) Unlike EU commissioners, people can vote Theresa May out at the next general election. 2) The UK has a parliamentary democracy. It is not a presidential system. Theresa May was elected by her constituents. 3) Of the 14 prime ministers since the end of the Second World War, half of them (including Theresa May) assumed office between elections.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#189

Post by throwaway-hn123 »

sievebrain wrote: post #137
anonymousDan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? Academia has definitely been hit hard by austerity like the rest of the public sector. There have been basically no pay rises since the Tories came in.

If you think "basically no pay rises" is what austerity means then I think you just proved my point for me ... edit: To clarify (given the telling off below), the rest of the public sector in the UK has seen massive budget cuts with 20, 30, 40% loss not being uncommon in some departments, or in the BEST case (like the NHS) large workload increases with extremely small or no budget increases. It's hard for me to imagi…

There's no need for this kind of remark, all you're doing is posturing to preserve your ego instead of actually trying to understand. This is not communicating in good faith. Please try to do better.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#190

Post by wildmusings »

neximo64 wrote: post #179
justin66 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the UK and France are permanent U.N. security council members, that sounds rather hyperbolic.

The next steps will actually be France will give up its seat and the EU will take it up. The UK was also going to give it up (alongside its WTO seat) which was what drove Cameron's 'ever closer union' clause.

I think the only "next steps" for the EU is a frantic attempt to not crumble. The National Front and Alternative for Germany are gaining fast.
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