Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a great deal of information (in studies and research) that shows post-secondary schooling is a good investment for the individual, but that does not mean that increasing the average amount of schooling is good for the country. A number of people are now making the argument that greater 'educational' achievement is mostly just signalling status, intelligence, socialization, and work ethic, not actually teachi…
> If this view is correct, increasing the amount of education that the average citizen receives is just wasting their time (as most people do not enjoy their time in class), at great expense to them and the average taxpayer.[1] Even accepting your first premise, this does not follow. Even if degrees are 100% signalling and 0% actual education, it's still the right choice for the individual because that signalling has…
The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
131–140 of 160 posts
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Quality of life has never been higher for any social class even if this were true (source?) it doesnt matter when there is a steady move toward lower social class on average for the overwhelming majority of Americans
Yes, the middle class IS shrinking, but the amazing thing is people are leaving to the upper classes at a 2:1 ratio. > The study shows that as the number of middle-class Americans fell (from 61 percent of the population to 51 percent of the population), the percentage of Americans who are upper income surged from 14 percent of the population to 20 percent of the population. http://www.cnbc.com/id/48754974 71% of Amer…
It is not the case that people in the "lower" classes decided not to get any skills. It is that the economy changes over time and their skills are no longer compensated well and, in general, US society is not good at accommodating people to change their skill-sets to move into a new career. You might have anecdotes about people who made such a career change, but for society as a whole, it is too difficult.
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#133The american dream seems to have changed more towards taking from others to give to ones self. I notice a difference in "safety nets" now compared to say end of ww1. Very different times, and it affects many things.
Don't conflate political rhetoric with quality of life. Quality of life has never been higher for any social class, even with unfortunate income inequality.
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
how convenient, to pick and make it native vs foreign born? you know better than that! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...
Convenient in the sense of that most countries don't collect race demographics and there isn't any other data, or convenient in the sense of you having little to offer as a retort?
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nordic countries [...] owe large part of their success to colonization in the past. The Nordic countries had no (or negligible) colonies. The Nordic countries are Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Iceland and Norway.
lol. Please tell me more about how Nordic people never established any colonies. The countries that made all the colonies are Nordic colonies in and of themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans
Finland is another Nordic country, though not a Scandinavian country. Finland has never had an empire. It was too busy being controlled by Sweden and Russia. This means the Finns are Nordic people. Hence getgoingnow's statement cannot be true for all Nordic countries.
That said, cplanas is correct. Finland had no colonies, and for the other Nordic countries the colonies provided only a small revenue source. They surely did not "owe large part of their success to colonization in the past" as getgoingnow claims. Eg, Sweden's wealth historically comes from copper and iron, and Sweden was a poor country. Norway's w
I see you switched from "Nordic countries" to "Nordic people" and then to "Normans", to then imply that successful Norman conquests and colonization lead to a significant economic gain to the Nordic countries. I do not think that's a meaningful connection for the current discussion.
First, I do not like how you imply there is only one type of colonization. There's settler colonialism, like how the Bantu migrations displaced the Pygmy populations in early Congo history, or how the Norse/Danes controlled the region known as the Danelaw, or how the Norse settled in France, and assimilated (switched to Catholicism and to the French language), or how the Norse colonized Iceland.
There's also exploitation colonialism, which England and Spain are two of the best known examples. But the Norse conquest of England, which might have enriched some of the Norse in France, never went back to "the Nordic countries". Where then is the source of the revenue stream that getgoingnow implied was a basis for the success of the modern Nordic countries?
Second, the connection from "Normans" to "Nordic countries" doesn't work that way. The term "Nordic" is a relatively recent term that refers to a list of modern countries and territories; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries . It does not refer to Brittany, where the Normans lived, nor to Britain or southern Italy, which the Normans conquered.
Third, "Nordic people" has a variety of meanings (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_people ). It can refer to the Germanic people as a whole, or the people who live in the specific Nordic countries, or a term from scientific racism from the late 1800s, or the Norse, or more specifically the Vikings. I think your introduction of that term confuses the topic more than it helps. Which definition do you mean to use, and why not stay with "Nordic countries"?
Fourth, the Normans are only one link in history. Why stop with them? The Normans come from the Norse. The Norse are Germans. Why not simply say it's all due to German colonization?
Then again, you wrote "The countries that made all the colonies are Nordic colonies". I must have missed that part of history where they covered how the Normans colonized the Islamic Iberian Peninsula and lead to the Portuguese colonies.
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
But these percentiles are a zero sum game (the distribution of percentiles is always uniform 0-100). Which makes me wonder why one would laud upward mobility in percentiles, when any such upward mobility must be balanced out by equal and opposite downward mobility.
Because the lack of downward mobility suggests the same problem as the upward mobility: your success in life is based on your parents income not your own merits. If you want a meritocracy you have to accept that untalented/unmotivated kids of rich parents may become relatively poor.
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And the vast majority of Americans in the US have only one culture: the American one. I don't think there is one unifying American culture. There are some common cultural elements, but there are fairly distinct regional (as well as racial/ethnic) cultures in the US.
I think those common cultural elements form the American culture. Having fairly distinct regional cultures, and even languages, is not uncommon. If the US would not share a culture, intra-US migration would be a big issue, as it is in the EU.
Migration (and simply interaction) across some of the internal cultural divides (especially the ones closely tied to race/ethnicity) is a big deal (you know those big problems with race/ethnicity the US has -- that's a big part of them). The regional variations are less of a big deal not because the regional cultures aren't distinct, but because the regional cultural areas are far bigger than in Europe, and the US has better inter-region support structures, which -- outside of rare major crises -- reduce mass internal migrations across those regional cultural divides.
(When there have been mass internal migrations, culture clashes and problems with migrants similar to those seen in Europe have occurred in the US, but I don't think there's been a big internal dislocation of that type since the 1930s Dust Bowl.)
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> cost of higher education - $250K/child for private college, $!20K/child state college US households have better balance sheets than most highly developed European nations. So that's obviously not making the impact that people would like to claim it is. The median student loan for all people with student loans, is a mere $13,000. > cost of health care I agree, that's why the US has such low taxes on the middle class…
> However, the median US household has $15,000 more in disposable income than for example Sweden. That's a dramatic sum, that can easily cover health insurance Insurance? Sure. I mean, a young, single person pays a bit above $250 in CA for a plan that meets ACA "Bronze" criteria, which pays about 60% of total cost. So minimal health insurance for a household should be easily doable under $15K per year. OTOH, total he…
Americans receive compensation to the tune of over a trillion dollars per year via health insurance coverage at their place of work. None of that gets counted in the US income figures.
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#139Finn here (though lived the past 12 years in the UK). In my experience, the one thing that by far works best to enable social mobility, and that I think Nordic and some central European countries have done quite well, is free, high quality education - from primary school to university. Especially as we move further and further to knowledge based economic growth, this is crucial, not just for social mobility, but well…
Curious: how hard is it for people to get access to free university education there? My home country - Brazil - offers free university education, and actually our federal universities are the best in the country. While there are quotas for certain socially disadvantaged groups of people (e.g. racial quotas), the sad reality is that regular seats are taken mostly by rich kids whose parents can afford to pay them prep…
Re: The American Dream Is Alive in Finland
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, the median US household has $15,000 more in disposable income than for example Sweden. That's a dramatic sum, that can easily cover health insurance Insurance? Sure. I mean, a young, single person pays a bit above $250 in CA for a plan that meets ACA "Bronze" criteria, which pays about 60% of total cost. So minimal health insurance for a household should be easily doable under $15K per year. OTOH, total he…
Most Americans are not paying out of pocket for their health insurance through the ACA. That's one of the biggest myths about the American health care market. The majority of Americans are either being covered by medicaid / medicare, or are mostly covered by health insurance at their job. Americans receive compensation to the tune of over a trillion dollars per year via health insurance coverage at their place of wor…
If people had to pay $2500/month for a family of 4 or $80 for a single aspirin in a hospital, they would go ballistic on day one. Also - health premiums go up 10-15% EVERY YEAR. That;s why your annual raise is 3% or less.