Article argues, "autopilot could let people who are blind and disabled drive now, where they couldn't drive before. but they could never get killed in a car accident while driving before, so this is ethically questionable." Article's logic is dumber than a sack of hair.
The article is arguing for inaction in the Trolley Problem [1]. In short: You have a choice between saving five people and letting one other person die, or doing nothing and letting five people die. Which is a controversial position, but not stupid exactly. I would call it misguided, and certainly not a very utilitarian position. And given the options I personally would vote for the utilitarian answer: Save five peop…
Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
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Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
By Cavalier atitude you mean very slowly while thousands of people die every year.
You know very well what he meant. Just because this technology MAY[1] save lives in the future doesn't mean you can sacrifice others for greater good. This is also the reason why we don't allow for experimenting on humans in the medical field. [1] This is something that while I am fan of Tesla I'm still convinced Google is doing this properly i.e. build autonomous system from the scratch. What Tesla offers is an auto…
Not the above poster, but no, I don't. One thing I'm NOT seeing in the articles (for- and against-) on vehicle automation is a cavalier attitude. (What I _have_ seen is a lot of "who do we sue" arguments that haven't worried about total human misery/safety, but we'll ignore that for the purposes of this argument and only consider those who HAVE considered human safety)
Can you clarify?
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#33The metric to compare both alternatives then becomes, how many miles of texting while driving vs. being driven by an autopilot while texting does it take to kill one person. I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the latter is lower. Maybe autopilots encourage "bad" behavior, but convenience also spurred construction of coal power plants at the cost of shortened lives. Much like fines for neglected pollution abatement, I would favor mandatory life insurance for each mile on autopilot to internalize risks.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article is arguing for inaction in the Trolley Problem [1]. In short: You have a choice between saving five people and letting one other person die, or doing nothing and letting five people die. Which is a controversial position, but not stupid exactly. I would call it misguided, and certainly not a very utilitarian position. And given the options I personally would vote for the utilitarian answer: Save five peop…
Do you similarly advocate that we should, right now, today, in real life policy, set up a program where we check people for matches to multiple people needing organs, and if one healthy person's organs can save the lives of 2+ people, murder that healthy person and take his/her organs?
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#35Do I want for him to face a 1/10000 chance of being killed each year by a human driver?
Or do I want for him to face a 1/20000 chance of being killed each year by an autonomous vehicle?
I'll take option two, for him and for me. I don't give a damn about philosophical questions. And I don't give a damn if it's a different dice I'm rolling.
The only reason I care much about this one death is because it risks slowing down progress. Lives are at stake here. Yours. Mine. Your family's. My family's.
The statistical/utilitarian argument for self-driving vehicles is less compelling than the personal story argument against them. So I want to make the for argument as personal and compelling as we can.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#36I actually would welcome the day we have autonomous "self-driving cars" so I could tell it to go to the shop for service/inspection and drive itself back, but if I'm in the car I will always be the driver.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Summed up by the author's question "Would we really accept higher statistical safety, if that came with new risks and accident types that we could easily avoid today?" Who would say no to this?
Lots of people don't fly because they are afraid of planes, for example. Expect people to be highly resistant to that change at the beginning.
My experience with people who are afraid of planes is that they know planes are safer than cars, but none the less feel a visceral, non-rational fear of the airplane that makes flying deeply uncomfortable for them. Kind of like how you might feel if you were covered in insects, even if you knew that the insects were non-venomous, non-disease carrying, and clean.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you similarly advocate that we should, right now, today, in real life policy, set up a program where we check people for matches to multiple people needing organs, and if one healthy person's organs can save the lives of 2+ people, murder that healthy person and take his/her organs?
No, because the risk of surgery and transplant, plus the initial health of the person needing the organ, means it's not 100% certain it will succeed. But leaving the organ in the original person will.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#39Have they even released this data for examination? I am thinking that many people have approached this feature with caution, in that its a novelty but they aren't "trusting" it or relying on it like you would a human driver to safely get you somewhere. It would be also interesting to see the types of roads and conditions where the feature is enabled. In the rain? Snow? At night? Poor visibility? Traffic conditions.
Just a single number paints an incomplete picture of the data. Why has no one mentioned this? People are sheep that are quick to declare victory after seeing a single number without questioning where or how that number came to be.
My thoughts are this: give this feature to your average Joe driving a Honda without much guidance and we'd have a lot more mechanized death.
Youtube is full of Tesla autopilot fail videos where the driver had to take quick action to avert disaster. What if we let this into the hands of a lot more irresponsible people who think they can tool down the highway watching a Harry Potter movie, blind faith and trust in a "feature". How many Tesla owners here would honestly trust the feature that much with their life at this point?
Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death
#40I am bullish both on Autopilot and Tesla. That said, I don't think lying about numbers is a good thing. They weren't any death on Tesla model S until now. So, saying using Autopilot is still safer than driving 'manually' is a lie. Tesla was comparing itself to the average not so good US average car. I think it is a bit of a stretch. I will still use it though.
If we assume a death is binomially distributed, 1 death in 100 million kilometers is consistent with a real rate of anywhere between 0.03 and 3.7 deaths per 100 million kilometers. That's a big bracket.