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Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

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Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#71

Post by kowdermeister »

ryandrake wrote: post #42
TrickzOnU wrote: post #16

I loved this line from the article "With unsolved US VISA problems for STEM workers, IT companies might have to get creative to hire potential employees." -- Yeah, creative...like paying a living wage for the location. Pay salaries that will allow someone to rent their own 1B (not bunking) and the "shortage" will magically disappear.

Yep, the tired old "Shortage of Engineers" meme is bound to come up in any discussion about tech hiring that ignores compensation. Saying there is a shortage of something in a market only makes sense given a price. Sure, there is probably a shortage of Bay Area engineers if you're paying $70K, but I bet there is no shortage if you're paying $400K.

$70k is a splendid salary if you live outside the US :) It's probably more than I ever earned in my lifetime.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#72

Post by Apocryphon »

wrong_variable wrote: post #49
lxfontes wrote: post #46

honest question: Any idea why Toronto (and Canada in general) is not higher in this list?

Per capita Toronto/Vancouver is a lot higher than London, its just that London is 8 million people while Toronto is barely 3 million.

I'm always amazed that Montreal hasn't taken off yet as an alternative to the two.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#73

Post by Bahamut »

RKoutnik wrote: post #62
BadassFractal wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be the CEO that decides to pay your employees 2-3x market rate? I'd love to watch that experiment from the sidelines.

400k is market rate for top-quality bay area engineers, depending on specialty [0]. You don't see job ads for those folks, because hackers like that don't read them. [0] And even for lower-paying specialties (like UI/UX), 400k isn't even 2x market rate.

Can verify - I turned down an opportunity for lead frontend work a year ago for $350k-400k (a lot of compensation in stock/bonuses, so it was variable), and that wasn't even at a big tech company.

(For the curious, I opted for tremendous work-life balance instead)

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#74

Post by Const-me »

kowdermeister wrote: post #58

How does hiring remotely work financially? Should I set up a company and invoice the company that hired me? Does it make to go off-shore? Any info would be helpful, thanks.

Depends on your jurisdiction + citizenship. In some places, you may work without setting up a company, e.g. being a sole entrepreneur.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#75

Post by TrickzOnU »

vonmoltke wrote: post #59
wrong_variable wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a lot more complex than that. If the cost of beef was increased 4x for whatever reason, then most people would just switch their preference for meat. There are ofcourse a lot of greedy companies. But a lot of the time the consumer demands a price point for software product, many startups cannot afford to pay 400K to developers. I think its not a reflection of how difficult it might be to create software b…

I agree with everything you say about the economics of the situation, but ours is the omly industry I know of where inability to make enough money to pay for a sufficient workforce translates into a workforce shortage. A cattle rancher isn't going to compalain about a "ranchhand shortage" if she can't afford to pay enough to attract them.

It is not. The rancher would just hire an illegal immigrant often and it happens all the time on farms and restaurants. It doesn't fly in office environments and in positions where the salary cant just disappear in the books.

Secondly, only the technology industry has a massive pipeline of overseas workers available...so naturally there is constantly a "shortage" as a means to increase the pipeline of overseas workers.

I'm not saying NOT to hire overseas workers. I'm saying to be honest about it. Say -- we refuse to pay market wages and would rather that new graduates not find work than pay them a living wage for the Bay Area, instead we'll hire offshore workers desperate to flee their countries and willing to shack up 3 to a studio apartment.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#76

Post by Dangeranger »

kowdermeister wrote: post #71
ryandrake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the tired old "Shortage of Engineers" meme is bound to come up in any discussion about tech hiring that ignores compensation. Saying there is a shortage of something in a market only makes sense given a price. Sure, there is probably a shortage of Bay Area engineers if you're paying $70K, but I bet there is no shortage if you're paying $400K.

$70k is a splendid salary if you live outside the US :) It's probably more than I ever earned in my lifetime.

70k is a good salary even in many places within the US, the problem is that the cost of living in SF and NYC makes that salary very hard to live on. Rent in some locations within SF and NYC can meet or exceed 70k.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#77

Post by TrickzOnU »

anonymousguy wrote: post #45
TrickzOnU wrote: post #16

I loved this line from the article "With unsolved US VISA problems for STEM workers, IT companies might have to get creative to hire potential employees." -- Yeah, creative...like paying a living wage for the location. Pay salaries that will allow someone to rent their own 1B (not bunking) and the "shortage" will magically disappear.

Or, just leave the bay area... http://www.moving.com/real-estate/compare-cities/results.asp... Seriously... why should a smaller house cost nearly 10x more in the same country? You won't be paid 10x less where the cheaper houses are.

Yes, that is what many of us do. We either leave the tech industry, or tech positions, or the area. There is no "shortage", it is just that "unfillable" positions dont pay a living wage for the locale+experience.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#78

Post by kowdermeister »

Dangeranger wrote: post #76
kowdermeister wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$70k is a splendid salary if you live outside the US :) It's probably more than I ever earned in my lifetime.

70k is a good salary even in many places within the US, the problem is that the cost of living in SF and NYC makes that salary very hard to live on. Rent in some locations within SF and NYC can meet or exceed 70k.

I get that, it's just so unreal to see these numbers for the same thing as I do. This is a really good reason why remote work is going to level the market. I'm a bit surprised that it's not already around 50% of hires.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#79

Post by branchless »

wrong_variable wrote: post #48
ryandrake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the tired old "Shortage of Engineers" meme is bound to come up in any discussion about tech hiring that ignores compensation. Saying there is a shortage of something in a market only makes sense given a price. Sure, there is probably a shortage of Bay Area engineers if you're paying $70K, but I bet there is no shortage if you're paying $400K.

I think its a lot more complex than that. If the cost of beef was increased 4x for whatever reason, then most people would just switch their preference for meat. There are ofcourse a lot of greedy companies. But a lot of the time the consumer demands a price point for software product, many startups cannot afford to pay 400K to developers. I think its not a reflection of how difficult it might be to create software b…

The system of usury against land ensures that land costs adapt to absorb all available income after food/clothing/energy costs have been accounted for.

Why is silicon valley more expensive to rent in? Because people came with money and the banks agreed to loan at a multiple of the new wage ceiling.

If wages increase x4 guess what will happen?

We need to stop banks creating debt to issue against land otherwise it will always absorb all income. And therefore all productivity gains flow to the land owner.

Re: Hacker News' “Who is Hiring?” thread, part 2, remote and locations

#80

Post by riskable »

dschiptsov wrote: post #24

Remote is still rare, it seems, because usual sweatshops are traditional habitat for pointy haired bosses and other parasitic "management". For remote, the way Linux kernel or BSDs are being developed, one needs nothing but git, emacs and browser (well, in case of Linux also a working mail) and no management at all. How could, say, Amazon, even hypothetically switch to remote? More seriously, there is no market for c…

> They will pay you for filling a slot in the social hierarchy which supports them, not for your good code.

This is absolutely true but remote workers can still be FTEs that extend a manager's umbrella of influence. So really, working remotely is orthogonal to managerial pyramids of power.

If anything, hiring remote workers may allow managers to get more employees working for them because they can get more bodies for the same amount of budget.

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