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How we're scammed into eating phony food

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Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#181
I live between NYC and Bangalore, India. The taste and freshness of vegetables and fruits in India is way more than what is available from Fairway in NYC. Some of it could be attributed to the broken cold storage (and hence most perishables come from around Bangalore).

I normally buy Spinach (and other Indian greens) from the lady outside a small community park. "No Agathi (type of green) today? What happened?" She grins widely "Went to the movies yesterday. Did not pluck them." To me this is fresh :)

I use the prices of vegetables swing wildly as a proxy for freshness. Tomatoes swung between 10Rs to 80Rs a Kg in a matter of days and is now around 15Rs a Kg. It is hard on the farmer, no doubt, but it also shows how local demand and supply is.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#182

I am surprised this isn't more commonly known. Locally (Australia), there has been recent furore over the 'blueberries' in most foods (including blueberry muffins etc.) not actually being blueberries, but a bluey chemical gel. Also, a local delicacy, the Barramundi fish is commonly replaced in restaurants with the cheaper, imported, less tasty, commercially raised Nile perch. Same with prawns, where beautiful sea fre…

To be honest I'm going to be a slight eco-terrorist right now. (Usually I want to tell commenters like me here to go fornicate with a cactus!) Seafood is being overexploited dramatically. While substituting gel for berries is downright despicable (or wood pulp in meat), substituting unsustainable exploitation with somewhat sustainable (pretty sure those come with a slew of own problems) seafood farms is a good thing.

substituting unsustainable exploitation with somewhat sustainable (pretty sure those come with a slew of own problems) seafood farms is a good thing.

Oh absolutely, but you shouldn't lie about it.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#183
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not just protectionism. If I buy Bleu d'Auvergne (it's a French cheese) in the Netherlands, I want to be sure I get the real deal, as a consumer.

But what if someone outside France is able to produce equivalent cheese using the same formula? Why do you care where it's from?

Much of the taste of food comes from inputs.

Even the water can make a significant difference. The animals producing the meat will influence taste depending on their life and what they're eating. It's reasonable that a regional product will turn out markedly different to the same recipe in a completely different environment.

It's reasonable to want the product as intended, not what it becomes after a series of shortcuts and cost savings to produce ostensibly the "same" product.

It's only heavily industrialised foods where this starts not to matter, mainly as it becomes so disntaced from those inputs.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is fine (I say as European). Requiring GMO labeling is is about as sensible as requiring DHMO labeling - it's scaremongering not based on science.

The public is not made only/mainly of science-challenged people as you're subtly implying. There are other reasonable motivations for labeling GMO, ie. political and environmental (not all environmental reasons are "GMO is frankenstein food"). Moreover, the GMO scaremongering will last, as any other fad, for a limited amount of time. The part of public who rejects GMO for shallow (no) reasons, will quickly forget and…

I'm not so sure. People are still sure that MSG will slowly kill them, when it's actually been proven to be 100% harmless as far as we know. You still see "No MSG" labels on tons of food.

Mandatory labeling gives the impression that it's relevant information. Whether your food is GMO is totally without consequence. I don't see why the government should burden and mislead the rest of us so you can more easily wage your political campaign from the comfort of your local Whole Foods.

I'd actually be fine with mandatory labeling if it said something like "GMO. Totally harmless but the food hipsters wouldn't shut up until we forced everyone to read this stupid label."

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the EU there are laws that say that if something is labeled as virgin olive oil, it has to be olive oil and nothing else. Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. Lobster meat has to be lobster meat, and Kobe beef absolutely has to be Kobe beef. TTIP basically(in extreme simplification) says that if something is allowed in US it should be allowed in any other signatory country - which would…

> Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. This is a really stupid regulation though. It's just protectionism for Greece, like the regulation that you can't call it "champagne" unless the grapes were grown in Champagne, France. There is no reason to expect this; consider Cheddar cheese, Peking duck, French toast, and Hamburgers.

It's just trademarks. We o Have them on Coca Cola, why not Champagne?

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#186
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a huge worry for me. The quality of food in the US is atrocious. When I was there, almost nothing tasted as it should, everything tasted bland and mildly sweet. The only way I found to get decent meat was to buy ultra-posh organic stuff at ridiculous prices, and then it would be no more than on par with the cheapest meat I could buy in Spain. Even chocolate is affected! TTIP is one of the worst things th…

Unrelated, but I was just debating GMO labels on "change my view" on reddit. I admit I was trolling that if GMO are healthy, then ultimately there is no harm in a neutral label. My comments got downvoted very hard. It boiled down that those labels would essentially be a form of misinformation, or that the uneducated public would make uninformed decisions. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but the post got 400 comme…

The fact is that nobody knows if GMO are healthy or not.

This is like saying that "machines are safe". It makes not sense, there all all kind of machines you can design. You should study a specific machine case by case.

Gene modification is enormous, and open to all kinds of unintended consequences. Just because we don't understand it yet it does not mean it is safe(we modify genes without really understanding what they really do with detail, we are unconscious ignorant).

I believe people should be able to buy GMO food if they what , but with traceability, if something wrong happens, and something wrong always happens with everything, to know it soon and do something about it.

But traceability is exactly what companies like Monsanto want to destroy. Look at Volkswagen, when something wrong happens, with traceability the lawsuits alone could bankrupt the company if people have children with leukemia or autistic and a scientific connection is proven.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#187
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you cook something on your stove, it becomes "processed food". If you have an aversion towards anything you hear is 'processed food', you are basically a chump.

The problem is industrial food is usually made with industrial grade additives: Monosodium glutamate, modified palm oil, various stabilisers, buckets of sugar, etc - I would list more, but I literally threw away the worst offender I had on hand (Pre-made meal-in-a-jar)

I'm glad you bring up MSG because it's a great example of something that's been repeatedly proven harmless but people still irrationally fear. It also occurs naturally in large amounts in many foods.

People are stupid when it comes to food. It's probably an evolutionary thing, from back when heeding food lore from other people could mean the difference between life and death.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#188
We're trying to end this.

Open Food Facts is an open, collaborative effort to try to make more sense of food and food packagings. A bit like Wikipedia, but for food. Using smartphones, you can scan any food item and get detailed and structured data about what you're about to buy/eat.

If the item is not yet in the database, you can help by taking a picture, so that next time there will be detailed facts.

You can peruse it at http://world.openfoodfacts.org

We have Apps for Android (http://android.openfoodfacts.org) iPhone (http://ios.openfoodfacts.org) Windows Phone (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/openfoodfacts/9nb...)

It's Open Data, so feel free to use the API in your apps and let your users contribute to end this (OdBL licence)

Also, we're looking for volunteer contributors and developers from all over the world to: - translate it to more languages - add food from your fridge - enhance the apps and web version

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#189
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not confident that is the case. It sounds wrong to me because although I accept that our grandparents were far more physically active than we are it is known that exercise burns calories at a low rate. Exercise has always been a bad way to lose weight. It has always been easier to lose weight by eating less. You could skip the gym for two days by neglecting to eat half a mars bar. I don't want to call you out fo…

> I don't want to call you out for exaggerating, but you are approaching exaggeration by orders of magnitude. A mars bar is under 300 calories. I was making a general point. It is easier to stop eating than to lose weight by exercise. Much easier. Also mars bars have been undergoing food inflation. It's another sinister conspiracy we can actually prove is real. They used to be about 1/3 bigger. The world around you s…

>I was making a general point. It is easier to stop eating than to lose weight by exercise. Much easier.

Now, I've been overweight on and off for much of my adult life, and... that hasn't been my experience. In my experience, if I want to stop gaining I need to cut out sweets and sodas, and that takes some effort and will, but I feel okay replacing my mountain dew with carbonated water and tea. I would classify that as 'easy' - but it doesn't make me lose weight, it just stops the expansion.

My experience has been that I feel... pretty bad if I try to cut beyond just skipping the sweets, the sodas and maybe the fries. I mean, I do lose weight without serious calorie-burning activities, but focus completely goes out the window, and I end up feeling really lethargic, and I become kitten-weak. It's quite possible that this is due to me not balancing the food I do eat correctly, or something of that nature, but the point is that nearly every time I've lost weight through caloric restriction, I stopped because I didn't like the side effects rather than any failure of will

I mean, maybe you are right; my lethargy actually makes it easier to not eat than to eat, but I don't get anything else done, either. I have successfully gotten down to a normal BMI this way, but if that's how being thin feels, I don't really see the point.

Exercise, on the other hand, generally makes me feel better on all fronts right away. I mean, it's still hard for me to stick with it, but when I stop it's always pretty clearly me being a flake or just not setting aside the time or properly prioritizing it, rather than the negative effects that significant caloric restriction seem to have. For me, when I stop exercising, it's nearly always clearly a failure of will. Last time, it was that they shut down my bike path for resurfacing. But I was feeling pretty good; I could take some time off... and yeah, that's how you get fat. That, and allowing myself to eat the incredibly good employer-provided sweets.

I have also gotten down to a normal BMI through exercise and avoiding sweets, and it feels great.

(there are injuries that will throw me off, too; but that's why I bicycle or eliptical rather than running; I ran a lot when I was thin, but as a fat person, trying to run enough to stress the cardiovascular system properly usually resulted in minor injuries that prevented me from running often enough to get into shape. On the bicycle and the eliptical, the limits are my will, my time, and my cardiovascular system.)

>I should warn you that those machine counters are kind of optimistic. The human body is really good at holding onto calories. We walk and run very efficiently, I think we may even be the most efficient at long distance running in the animal kingdom.

I was going off of http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calori... -

In theory, you can put a floor on how many calories you are burning, because you can measure the output. On bicycles, often this is done with strain gauges in the rear freehub, but the idea is that you can put a floor on it; thermodynamics says that you are putting out at least that much energy. Of course, then you can argue about how efficient your body is... and if you really believe that man is an incredibly efficient machine, well, you probably have not seen me engage in any sort of sport.

>Maybe this is subjective. I don't consider 500 calories a lot of food, but to me it's a significant amount of running. A mouthful of food vs half an hour on a treadmill.

well, 500 calories most of the way to a pretty good burger, if you skip the cheese, fries and mayo. I mean, I'm not saying it's a huge meal or anything, but it's not just a mouthful. Double that, and I think one hour on the eliptical while watching silly action movies is totally doable, and you've got a fully loaded fat-man double-burger with bacon and cheese. (I've still gotta skip the fries if I want to lose weight, but I get to eat the burger, which is the best part.)

yeah. I guess I don't really see a half an hour on a treadmill as a huge amount of gym time. I personally have a goal of 5 hours a week of intense (read: I'm dripping with perspiration) cardio every week. And if I keep that up for any period of time, and manage to avoid sweets? I lose weight. And doing any of that at all makes me feel better, even if I fail to meet the goal (which, as evidenced by my current 14 stone weight, has been the case rather more often than not lately.)

Of course, everyone is different and your body probably responds differently than my body does to all of these things. Certainly, if your point is that a half an hour at the gym three times a week probably isn't going to move your BMI very much, I agree, though it is likely to make you a somewhat healthier fat person.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#190
post #147

Can anybody comment on how well food is regulated in Canada? Since moving from the US to the EU I've definitely noticed a difference in food quality. I'll soon be moving to Quebec so I would be interested to hear if Canada is more like the US or EU in this respect.

During the winter, most fresh vegetables in Canada are imported from Mexico and the US. These are mostly breed for shelf life and usually bland. In the summer, local fruit and vegetable can be quite tasty if you know where to shop. The public markets of Montreal are very good ( http://www.marchespublics-mtl.com/ ). You can also subscribe to get weekly organic baskets from local farms during the harvest season ( http:…

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