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Oracle and the fall of Java EE

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Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#171

Post by prodigal_erik »

specialist wrote: post #68
jomamaxx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

"Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. ... Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks." "Container" is the key word here. J2EE had the notion of an app server hosting your app. The extreme alternative is to have your app be standalone and "embed" an I/O protocol (HTTP) server. I've had great success with this strategy.

Why want several HTTP stacks on the same machine? Isn't that like wanting multiple TCP stacks or DNS resolvers?

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#172

Post by [deleted] »

justinlardinois wrote: post #161
shadowmint wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shoute…

Sounds like the Python community.

[deleted]

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#173

Post by djsumdog »

krylon wrote: post #109
tremon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sane documentation. It's been ten years since I've used Java, but Sun's Java API documentation was lightyears ahead of what MS was offering. Both in terms of layout/navigation and in actual content.

I am not a big fan of Java and have not touched it in many years, but I agree the documentation was really, really good. Java' documentation as I remember it is still better than Microsoft's.

I really prefer Scala as my current JVM language. The language is way ahead of Java, but the documentation is a little mind-stabbing .. as is the syntax .. and implicits.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#174

Post by sievebrain »

nickpeterson wrote: post #56
elgabogringo wrote: post #14

Everybody hates Oracle, but people still give them so much money! One has to wonder when it will end now that there are alternatives.

Remember that sales is mostly about relationships. Your CEO will hand a few million to someone they trust. Oracle projects an image of being the large company that other large companies trust. SAP has a similar vibe. Your C-Level people don't want to play dice with tech because to them it's often a cost center whose disruption can be terrible for business. You'll notice most engineering focused companies don't use Or…

Last time I looked around it seemed a lot of "engineering focused companies" like tech startups were using garbage like MongoDB, the famously lossy database. I wouldn't assume that big companies are automatically incompetent and "tech focused companies" ignore Oracle for good reasons. It can as well be just fashion and/or groupthink and/or cost reasons.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#175

Post by jboles »

hinkley wrote: post #167
woogy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest .NET version is fully cross platform.

Microsoft doesn't know the meaning of the word cross platform, and never has. The conditionals on their latest cross platform offering do little to repair that image. They only go far enough to bait and switch you and then after they get you they cut funding for maintenance and the cross platform bits rot away.

This is a downside of any open-source project and is not specific to Microsoft.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#176

Post by coev »

BigJono wrote: post #48
jomamaxx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

Does Java have an equivalent to the Promise system in Javascript? I find it much more usable than callbacks for async-heavy applications.

Look into Scala and Futures, very similar.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#177

Post by devcamcar »

StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

Step into the Scala/Akka light my friend :)

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#178

Post by shadowmint »

pkaye wrote: post #128
shadowmint wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shoute…

Can you tell me what is the issue with SetDeadline()?

There's no issue with deadlines; I'm talking about people using deadlines instead of just hanging forever in go routines, and how contexts have been merged in stdlib in 1.7 (https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-complete-guide-to-golang-net...)

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#179

Post by coldtea »

justinlardinois wrote: post #161
shadowmint wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shoute…

Sounds like the Python community.

Not even close.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#180

Post by coldtea »

rafaelvasco wrote: post #143
jinst8gmi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to name some of these platforms which Java doesn't run on which .NET supports? I'm having a hard time coming up with even a very short list.

Well , not .NET but almost: PS4 (MonoGame/Mono) XBox One (.NET Core on the future and MonoGame/Mono) At least you can run c# code on those platforms. Java though is unlikely to ever happen.

So the "platforms" are 2 game consoles?
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