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Oracle and the fall of Java EE

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101–110 of 185 posts

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#101

What are the current best bets for writing web apps in Java? Play! is convenient, but how does it compare to Spring Boot?

I'm very happy with Dropwizard (http://www.dropwizard.io/) which is great for building REST services. I think it is quite similar to Spring boot (haven't used that).

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#102
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are actual Java's shortcomings?

Imagine you have two java apps on your pc. You want one to have full network access, but restrict the second one. Well, you can't, because application firewall sees both java apps as java.exe

Besides the fact that this is a very contrived example, and that this is not how I would go about managing firewall rules (why wouldn't you use ports / services? You trust the security of your PC on just the name of the application?), this is not true in many cases. To pick one: Eclipse (A Java app) does not identify itself as "java.exe".

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#103
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

Does Java have an equivalent to the Promise system in Javascript? I find it much more usable than callbacks for async-heavy applications.

Java has an implementation of Futures, but it's not very good. In the JVM, however, we have Scala Futures, which IMO are far better than Javascript promises. And on top, you have a lot more flexibility deciding how to run those futures, as far as threading goes, because they run on top of Java's very sturdy ExecutorService. There are a variety of executor services for pretty much anything you want.

JVM concurrency is best in class. It's just the Java language itself that moves at a snail's pace.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean? You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

INSTALLING JAVA =============== Even if you are Day One brand-new to Java, page #1 in any book will tell you to download a Java Development Kit (JDK). Any Google search would take you straight to the download page for Oracle's implementation, which is fine. The Oracle JDK does not include any "toolbar" malware. That's only an issue for the Oracle JRE download (i.e. the runtime without any compiler)... which page #1 i…

So why do we have to add a special source repository to do "apt-get install" and why is there a mandatory interactive license approval?

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

INSTALLING JAVA =============== Even if you are Day One brand-new to Java, page #1 in any book will tell you to download a Java Development Kit (JDK). Any Google search would take you straight to the download page for Oracle's implementation, which is fine. The Oracle JDK does not include any "toolbar" malware. That's only an issue for the Oracle JRE download (i.e. the runtime without any compiler)... which page #1 i…

So why do we have to add a special source repository to do "apt-get install" and why is there a mandatory interactive license approval?

Because (Oracle) Java comes with its own EULA, and the DFSG forbid any EULA in Debian main.

OpenJDK is in Debian main, and does not require user interaction.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#106
post #23

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?

Sane documentation. It's been ten years since I've used Java, but Sun's Java API documentation was lightyears ahead of what MS was offering. Both in terms of layout/navigation and in actual content.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go doesn't have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous "you don't need that with Go" is something pushed by go maintainers themselves. Go has a pretty comprehensive stdlib. And a huge and growing community of 3rd party libraries. I left .NET and Java for Go around 0.9 and since then I have seen Go flower into…

I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shoute…

How did it become good? Has generics been added? or syntax changed? or framework comes bundled with Go? Seems all example you gave are some libraries being written which shouldn't be big deal.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#109
post #106
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?

Sane documentation. It's been ten years since I've used Java, but Sun's Java API documentation was lightyears ahead of what MS was offering. Both in terms of layout/navigation and in actual content.

I am not a big fan of Java and have not touched it in many years, but I agree the documentation was really, really good.

Java' documentation as I remember it is still better than Microsoft's.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#110
post #28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno. Do you want the ask.com toolbar? How about updates that install the new version and remove the old version? Or maybe they've fixed the latter issue by now.

Well, the oracle website does tell you how to disable the toolbar, though I agree it shouldn't be there in the first place. As for uninstalling the old version, are you saying you want the new version to automatically uninstall old versions?

Yes. A new security release should absolutely remove the old release or at least disable any ability for less-than-fully-trusted code to invoke it.
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