Live data from Hacker News

Oracle and the fall of Java EE

techsticles.blogspot.com

71–80 of 185 posts

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#71

Is it fashionable to bash java ? What about https://github.com/graalvm/truffle or https://bitbucket.org/allr/fastr/wiki/Home or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo ? There is serious innovation happening in java land (through Oracle - without talking about Clojure, etc.) Java EE exists because of the need to support large legacy, enterprise customers. For those who are starting out in Java web frameworks, peo…

It has been fashionable to bash java for the past +10 years.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#72

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I wonder how difficult it would be to port C# to the jvm. It really is a better language. There are some parts of the standard library that are better in java, but overall I'd say C# is better there too.

You could say that Kotlin has already done it.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are actual Java's shortcomings?

Mostly OOP's shortcomings. c2 wiki will lead you to much discussion on how "design patterns" are a band-aid patch for the deep, deep problems with massive OOP projects.

Mostly a problem of how people use OOP.

I don't think there is a problem with the Java Language or the JVM.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#74

What are the current best bets for writing web apps in Java? Play! is convenient, but how does it compare to Spring Boot?

If you simply want to serve a web ui, Play and Spring Boot are good. Play is a bit more self-contained. It provides a lot but doing something a bit out of the ordinary can be challenging. Spring Boot is more agnostic in that respect but relies (obviously) on Spring for dependency handling.

As well as those 2, Dropwizard is excellent if you're writing REST apis and provides many enterprise-friendly features out of the box.

SparkJava (don't confuse with Apache Spark) is a very lightweight Sinatra/Flask-like framework using Java 8 features, and good for REST apis too.

2 more to consider IMHO: Vert.x, and Comsat from Parallel Universe. Parallel Universe have one of the most interesting technologies in Java-land IMO. They provide a library called Quasar that adds suspendable green threads (similar to Erlang processes) to your code using bytecode instrumentation. This allows a single server to handled a huge number (think 00,000s) of concurrent connections. Vert.x has support for Quasar too.

I'm sure others have favourites too.

https://www.playframework.com/

http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/

http://www.dropwizard.io/0.9.3/docs/

http://sparkjava.com/

http://vertx.io/

http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/comsat/

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#75

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I wonder how difficult it would be to port C# to the jvm. It really is a better language. There are some parts of the standard library that are better in java, but overall I'd say C# is better there too.

Check out kotlinlang by Jetbrains. It's git the best of java, C# and python

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#76
I dislike Oracle as a company. I whish Sun had been acquired by Google instead.

But the Java ecosystem is awesome. The language is great, the JVM is great. As long as you know what you are doing.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#77
post #23

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?

Java was the original .NET. Read history of Sun vs Microsoft. C# was a result of a merger of Java + Delphi, visual .NET components are based on Borland's VCL design. Many Java developers were extremely allergic to MS and the vibe at that time was "freedom", especially from nasty companies. Java also got its foothold in finance institutions due to easier design of distributed and transactional systems than the prevailing super difficult CORBA which propelled its rise everywhere. If you look at distributed systems, Java is still the king there.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#78
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

Does Java have an equivalent to the Promise system in Javascript? I find it much more usable than callbacks for async-heavy applications.

Java has Futures, which are close, and allow similar patterns of code. But they're not woven into the language as pervasively as Promises are into JavaScript. You need to deal with asynchronous-ness explicitly.

There's also, in true Java tradition, a number of competing implementations of Promise based frameworks. The one I've used, Ratpack, defines and uses promises almost identically to JavaScript/Node.js.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#79

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

> the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years

Oh, by all the possible deities, how I wish that was even remotely true...

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean? You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

I have no recriminations prepared for you but I am curious; where did you get the idea you can't make docker images for java apps? Did you piece it together mistakenly based on incomplete knowledge or is someone actually spreading that around?

Don't know about other poster, but I always thought that while you can make docker images for Java apps that include the Oracle JRE, there are restrictions if you want to distribute them - see http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/... . The no modifications clause is problematic for GPL software.
Post reply on HN