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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#161

Post by venomsnake »

ptaipale wrote: post #160
venomsnake wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. Diluted but it does. I think that 20% of the LA smog could be traced to be of Chinese origin. Sources - probably a guardian article an year ago.

That is clearly not feasible. Just think about it: Right now, air quality index in central San Francisco is 15 [0]. That's "good". In central Los Angeles, it is 84, a "moderate" day [1]. Those figures are on linear scale [2]. The cities are about on an equal distance from China, and the figure for San Francisco is 18 % of that in LA. If 20 % of Los Angeles pollution would be from China, then 110 % of San Francisco ai…

It was nytimes. Sorry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/world/asia/china-also-expo...

https://pnas.altmetric.com/details/2061087#score

Link to the paper. Abstract:

tmospheric modeling shows that transport of the export-related Chinese pollution contributed 3-10% of annual mean surface sulfate concentrations and 0.5-1.5% of ozone over the western United States in 2006. This Chinese pollution also resulted in one extra day or more of noncompliance with the US ozone standard in 2006 over the Los Angeles area and many regions in the eastern United States. On a daily basis, the export-related Chinese pollution contributed, at a maximum, 12-24% of sulfate concentrations over the western United States. As the United States outsourced manufacturing to China, sulfate pollution in 2006 increased in the western United States but decreased in the eastern United States, reflecting the competing effect between enhanced transport of Chinese pollution and reduced US emissions. Our findings are relevant to international efforts to reduce transboundary air pollution.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#162

Post by evgen »

bthallplz wrote: post #158
jschwartzi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god for the US EPA.

They're useful trailblazers, but I'd love to see more free-market solutions tried and developed.

Why don't you start with a simple demonstration or example of the free-market working for any public good.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#163

Post by antisthenes »

bthallplz wrote: post #158
jschwartzi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god for the US EPA.

They're useful trailblazers, but I'd love to see more free-market solutions tried and developed.

The free market solution to environmental issues has always been "dump it right here", because it completely ignores externalities.

You'd have to be insane to even consider that it could be otherwise.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#164

Post by kartD »

kamaal wrote: post #159
kartD wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're right and I'd really love for it to happen. Btw, can you explain the tax accountability part, I'm not really sure I understand what you're trying to say there?

Fixing tax accountability mandates fixing income accountability. Once that is done corruption will become impossible. Best bet currently is cashless transactions. The more we have them, the better. If some one has more than explainable income in the bank they will be forced to show that up in tax returns, if its legal they will have to pay taxes, if its illegal then they face action. Cash transactions are at the core…

Makes a lot of sense. I complete agree. Thanks for the explanation.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#165

Post by eatbitseveryday »

internaut wrote: post #151
_navaneethan wrote: post #100

I am from India. Especially from Bangalore. I commute daily 30kms up and down. I am facing breathing polluted air issues. In fact I was looking for good pollution filter masks. But I am unable to get the good one. Since the reviews of them are unsatisfactory I am trying to come out of this issue at all. At the same time I don't want to leave my lovable tech job. Anybody experienced the same issues? Any advise ?

I hear good things about HEPA filters. http://www.achooallergy.com/3m-6291-hepa-masks/ I'd recommend getting cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems.

> cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems.

This is such a common misconception. Surgical masks are meant to prevent the transmission of diseases by blocking blood droplets etc. from entering your mouth. They are NOT[1] intended nor capable of filtering particles from the air (except perhaps if they are visible to the eye). I see so many individuals in Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, and some in China wearing them, but the only role they can play is to (i) keep you warm, (ii) fit in with the locals, (iii) avoid spreading disease, (iv) keep bugs out of your mouth when riding with a moped down the street.

If you want to filter PM2.5 you need proper respirators[2] or activated charcoal masks that can do the job.

[1] https://www.osha.gov/Publications/respirators-vs-surgicalmas...

[2] https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/respiratoryprotection/index.html

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#166

Post by akiselev »

dlandis wrote: post #124
njs12345 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can compare the maps for e.g. PM2.5 in New Delhi and LA quite easily: http://aqicn.org/map/delhi/mandir-marg/#@g/28.6188/77.2405/1... http://aqicn.org/map/losangeles/los-angeles-north-main-stree... Quite a lot worse, as you can see!

Thanks, however I think an overall picture/summary that took into account seasonal differences would also be interesting in this context in addition to that type of real time information.

I don't have a link to such seqsonal information but I can tell you that right now is in the ball park of worst case for Los Angeles. We've been hit by some brutal forest fires due to the drought and air quality for the last couple of weeks has been much worse than usual.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#167

Post by rhinadash »

djsumdog wrote: post #91
stickfigure wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India doesn't have enough electricity There's something fundamentally broken about this statement, which suggests a deeper problem - why isn't the market for electricity working in India?

The grid in India is pretty broken. My dad had dreams of going back to India to retire, but on his last trip he told me housing was now super expensive, the pollution was still terrible, the air not fit to breath and the water still unsafe to drink. In other countries we take a national grid for granted. In Europe, power can be bought and sold from country to country. India may be lacking in capacity, but even if the…

> a land mass way smaller than their more populous neighbour to the north

Is the huge amount part of the relatively uninhabited himalaya accounted for in that statement?

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#168

Post by rhinadash »

hx87 wrote: post #97
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree pop growth is an issue... But asking the pop to drop by two thirds is out of bounds. You cannot get that drop without natural decline over many generations or some kind of dreadful calamity. Natural decrease will happen but over generations, with the expected economic consequences of fewer people contributing to an economy. Maybe Japan can show the way, but so far, they are still basing their economy on growt…

I find strange this whole idea that economic growth requires population growth. Why can't each person, aided by automation, simply produce and consume more?

why not both?

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#169

Post by Retric »

vacri wrote: post #157
Retric wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge chunk of china is basically uninhabitable. http://www.china-mike.com/china-travel-tips/tourist-maps/chi... PS: You can draw a strait line in China with 6% of the population on the larger half, and 94% of the population on the smaller half. http://www.undertheraedar.com/2012/06/population-of-china.ht...

Tibetless China is still a lot bigger than India and doesn't have that 94% property. The spirit of the GP's comment holds, I think.

China:

  ~94% of 1.357b = 1.28 billion population. 
  ~40% of 3.7 mill = 1.5 million square miles.
  = ~0.85 billion people per million square miles.
India

  1.252 billion people on
  1.269 million mi
  =~ 1 billion people per million square miles.
So, India is around 15% denser. Of course you can avoid the strait line cut and push China's density much higher, but the point is they are not that far off where people actually live.
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