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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#31

Post by netsharc »

viraptor wrote: post #3
exabrial wrote: post #2

We can pass all the air regulations in America, but it won't matter one bit until China and India get their act together. China has 100% 24/7/365 smog cover along their population centers. So sick of people pushing overbearing regulation in the USA without even holding these countries accountable!

How exactly do you want to hold them accountable? The best thing I can come up with is force restrictions on the sales - you have to prove the production met the known standard. But you can't do that if there are no local alternatives meeting that standard.

It seems like mother nature will take care of that, if you look up "Indian heatwaves", she is already hard at work.

I predict the country will cause the biggest climate-induced migration in the early 2020's... there will be deaths and outbreak of war too.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#32

Post by theGimp »

exabrial wrote: post #2

We can pass all the air regulations in America, but it won't matter one bit until China and India get their act together. China has 100% 24/7/365 smog cover along their population centers. So sick of people pushing overbearing regulation in the USA without even holding these countries accountable!

You are confusing issues. Air quality regulation in the US affects pretty much only the US, and the same goes for China.

The issue you are probably referring to is Global Warming ... in which case what the US does still matters a great deal.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#33

Post by mikeash »

hammock wrote: post #22

Dare we suggest that air pollution (the old-fashioned kind) is more important than global warming?

Climate change is a long-term threat that requires global action. Old-fashioned air pollution is an immediate threat, one which kills millions of people a year right now, and which can be helped with local action near the affected people.

So yes, air pollution is not only more important, but also easier to fix.

If anyone disagrees, go visit one of these cities. A few days of burning nasal passages and you probably won't be able to pay much attention to the decades-distant consequences of climate change.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#34

Post by maxerickson »

mikeash wrote: post #28
ch4ck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 emission per capita (2013): USA 16.5 t China 7.6 t So better turn off your electronic devices etc. NOW.

We are not talking about CO2 emissions here....

You did write If we're talking about reducing CO2 emissions, then yes, further cutting emissions in the US is probably not going to do much good compared to putting similar effort into China.

I think it's fair to point out that the US cutting emissions could have a larger impact than China limiting increases (at least on a per capita basis).

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#36

Post by mc32 »

kartD wrote: post #21
rsync wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're two-stroke. Small engines in the developing world are typically terrible - very dirty, very noisy ... and also cheap and easy to fix.

Don't think so, India is typically 4 stroke because of pollution norms and 4 strokes are more fuel efficient which we're very sensitive to. Frankly, India's problem can only be fixed by population control. If Sanjay Gandhi hadn't been an idiot and forever poisoned the idea of population control, India would be much better off, especially if we can get the population to around 300M - 500M

I agree pop growth is an issue... But asking the pop to drop by two thirds is out of bounds. You cannot get that drop without natural decline over many generations or some kind of dreadful calamity. Natural decrease will happen but over generations, with the expected economic consequences of fewer people contributing to an economy. Maybe Japan can show the way, but so far, they are still basing their economy on growth which is incongruous with their demographics and it hasn't worked out too well and seems to be headed towards deterioration, barring external changes (like importing young people).

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#37

Post by ams6110 »

vinalk wrote: post #23
rsync wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're two-stroke. Small engines in the developing world are typically terrible - very dirty, very noisy ... and also cheap and easy to fix.

No, almost all two wheeler sold in india are four stroke

Even so, small air-cooled engines typically have no emission controls and rudimentary carburetors and are quite dirty.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#38

Post by mc32 »

mikeash wrote: post #26
jessriedel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polluted air is a symptom of being poor, and making the reasonable trade off between cost and long-term health risks. China doesn't pollute now because they somehow have to learn valuable lessons in democracy; they pollute because they can't afford the same luxuries we have in the US.

That may be the case sometimes, but I doubt it's the case in China, at least not always. Beijing is fairly wealthy these days, yet is still polluted like crazy. The health impacts are enormous. The reason it persists is because the the costs of cleaning it up are concentrated on a few, while the costs of being exposed are distributed among many, and there's no mechanism to push those costs back onto the responsible p…

I agree with disincentivising pollution, but I'm a bit pessimistic it could work in India, if only because India is less centralized than China and there is a lot more local corruption (not that China doesn't have local corruption, but the central gov can bring things to bear when it wants).

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#40

Post by jfoster »

mikeash wrote: post #33
hammock wrote: post #22

Dare we suggest that air pollution (the old-fashioned kind) is more important than global warming?

Climate change is a long-term threat that requires global action. Old-fashioned air pollution is an immediate threat, one which kills millions of people a year right now , and which can be helped with local action near the affected people. So yes, air pollution is not only more important, but also easier to fix. If anyone disagrees, go visit one of these cities. A few days of burning nasal passages and you probably w…

Seems like both of them might be worth fixing and at least part of the solution is the same.
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