NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent • Hacker News Board

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#111

Post by Noseshine » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

comatose_kid wrote: post #81

Traveled to India ~2+ years ago. Landed in Delhi - couldn't make out the city at all from the air due to pollution. We drove to Agra (3 hr drive) and there was smog pretty much the entire way there. This seems like a promising opportunity for startups to tackle...I wonder if there are any out there, would love to hear more.

Startups can provide symptom relieve to those able to pay - they can't solve the problem. You presume too much of private enterprise. Here's an example for a huge commercial success story often attributed to private enterprise - Silicon Valley - but here is its real history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo (TL;DL: very big government spending on electronics R&D laid the foundation, only then could private capital start to work). This is a big policy issue first of all. Unless a miracle comparable to life itself happens and somebody discovers how to create energy from nothing requiring pretty much zero infrastructure (that has to be build all over the country), and how to create transportation that also doesn't require much infrastructure (that has to be build all over the country), same with clean water (India has a big lack-of-clean-water problem, and increasing).

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#112

Post by nabla9 » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #80

kamaal wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone protest? India doesn't have enough electricity to waste on Malls and Movies theaters. Or big offices like tech parks in Bangalore! What you have mentioned applies to every tech park in Bangalore, so should people now protest against their very source of employment?

India doesn't have enough electricity There's something fundamentally broken about this statement, which suggests a deeper problem - why isn't the market for electricity working in India?

Exploding demand and insufficient supply. Annual growth in electricity usage is around 6%.

Investment into electric infrastructure is not sufficient. Coal provides almost 3/4 of the electricity.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#113

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #76

mikeash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how. Particulates don't persist in the atmosphere that long. I understand a little bit of this stuff makes it across the Pacific, but not a whole lot. Living on the east coast, I'm basically unaffected by it except when I go to China, and most Americans don't do that. If we're talking about reducing CO2 emissions, then yes, further cutting emissions in the US is probably not going to do much good compared…

> I don't see how. Particulates don't persist in the atmosphere... You said > I would really hate to see the US loosen pollution regulations because of some weird idea that we shouldn't bother cleaning up our air unless everybody else does too. which, to me, only makes sense for types of pollution that are shared. Why would anyone think that China's position one way or the other on a strictly local pollutant should i…

I assumed we were talking about local pollution since that's the topic of the article. As certain commenters elaborated, it became clear that they were focused on CO2 instead, but given the context of the conversation it took some time to make that shift.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#114

Post by blackoil » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

marvindanig wrote: post #94

j0e1 wrote: post #84

As someone who grew up in New Delhi, I think the government has taken quite a few steps like passing laws that require all public transport to run only on CNG, mandating industries to be positioned outside the city and more recently having policies to curb number of cars on the road. But the problem of pollution never seemed to improve. Optimistically I've told myself that if those measures weren't taken we would hav…

Why doesn't the Indian government speak to Tesla Motors/Solar City? They can help you zero down on traffic/power generation related pollution completely. Indian engineers are smart people and given that much of EV technology is now proven and even open source!, I think it will make sense for the people there to adopt alternative tech. Have you tried talking to Tesla to open up R&D center with Tatas/Mahindras/whoever?…

Cost, most cars sold in India are less then 8000 USD. Tesla won't make any sent here. Solar is now coming up motivated by poor infrastructure, particularly in remote/rural areas

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#115

Post by nabla9 » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

wrong_variable wrote: post #42

The Irony ! When I went to India, I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities. The air in the villages were clean - it was much cooler weather due to not being trapped in the congested cities. The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city. I think its a serious lack of education that India/Bangladesh wi…

Clean air and pollution comes far behind to nutrition.

Poor people move to cities because they want to escape malnutrition.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#116

Post by Noseshine » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

Dutchie wrote: post #4

exabrial wrote: post #2

We can pass all the air regulations in America, but it won't matter one bit until China and India get their act together. China has 100% 24/7/365 smog cover along their population centers. So sick of people pushing overbearing regulation in the USA without even holding these countries accountable!

Air regulations have an immediate, local effect too. But you're right, we should subsidize clean air in developing countries too. [..Ducks..]

I would have no problem with that whatsoever and gladly pay even more taxes - if I didn't know that all I would pay for is corruption. People spending money have to be accountable - and that using an actually working system, not just on paper - to those who pay. Foreign tax payers are in the worst position possible, because not even their own government would care much and hide behind "higher level policy and diplomacy" before risking trouble. "You vote for me in the UN and I'll overlook your corruption" - every day in "realpolitik".

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#117

Post by Noseshine » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:06 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #110

Noseshine wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really uninhabitable? The territories in the north maybe too harsh, but with global warming helping too I think the southern half is quite alright, which is huge. It's all forest, lots of lakes, no lack of water and not too high, and no desert.

On the western half: The 'low' areas have minimal rainfall and are 1KM over sea level. http://www.chinamaps.org/china/china-map-of-precipitation-an... The high areas get a little more rainfall, but are mostly 4-5+km over sea level. http://www.china-food-security.org/data/maps/dem/dem_h.htm Combine them and you can see why the population map looks the way it does. http://www.china-mike.com/china-travel-tips/tourist-ma…

Uhm... Canada, not China. I responded to the comment that said

    > You could probably do the same in Canada fwiw.

I would not ask about China, I've seen enough documentaries about their deserts and high plateaus. Some of them about the silk road, which was not an easy one because of that geography.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#118

Post by oldmanjay » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #70

mikeash wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US put all that effort into cleaning up the air in China? For something like CO2 it makes perfect sense. That has global impact, so emissions anywhere are essentially the same. But when it comes to particulates and air quality, it's mostly a local problem. Polluting Chinese factories and cars hurt people in China. The Chinese government and people should be the ones making the effort to clean it up. Th…

> Why should the US put all that effort into cleaning up the air in China? 1) For altruistic reasons: help people who suffer. 2) For selfish reasons: block from markets industrial competitors who are gaining an advantage by applying much poorer environmental norms and therefore take market share.

For additional selfish reasons: there's only one atmosphere. ruining it anywhere ruins it everywhere

i'm sort of surprised that would need to be pointed out, though

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#119

Post by gajjanag » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #6

As an Indian when I come back from overseas this the very first problem I notice, especially when I return from a long trip. The problem is far deep than one can imagine. A city like Bangalore has almost an impossible amount of scooters on roads. Almost every house has at least one, and most homes have easily 1 for every two people staying in the home. And its not like US where there are laws on building homes. Peopl…

> This is even possible because auto rickshaws and buses have gotten expensive. Public transport of any kind is expensive, unpredictable and not worth when you look at the overall comfort and economics of having our own scooter.

When I lived in Bangalore, and whenever I visit there, BMTC (the public bus transport provider) has buses at least every few minutes along the main corridors during the day.

They are often crowded, but I don't think I could call the service "unpredictable", beyond the general variations that apply to all means of vehicular transport in Bangalore. Last mile connectivity though is often painful.

The service is indeed expensive, especially when one is sharing a commute with another person.

This said, I really like your summary of Bangalore.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#120

Post by dxbydt » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:25 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #105

rapind wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably do the same in Canada fwiw.

Technically you could draw such a straight line in any country.

This is such an interesting idea! Lots of potential.

Given n (city,population, area) tuples for country C, find 2 cities, the line thru which slices C into two land masses M and N. M would then have k tuples and N would have n-k, such that the ratio of aggregate population of k tuples to the aggregate population of n-k would be 90+delta:10-delta, for delta in interval [1,9], whilst simultaneously you have the ratio of the aggregate area of the k tuples to the aggregate area of n-k working out to 1+nabla:1-nabla, for nabla in [0,0.5].

No idea what the optimal algorithm would be, short of brute force so O(n^2).

This is the sort of DS project a HuffPo would run - you can slice up countries not just based on 94:6 population but also crime rate, education, victims of homicide, what have you; all you need in tuples with larger arity.