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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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61–70 of 211 posts

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#61
So I'm not really sure what happened, but I couldn't read the article because the page ate up more than 1.5GB of RAM on Firefox and caused it to peg an entire core at 100% utilization http://i.imgur.com/j3q686E.png

And if I scroll down a bit more you'll find a web worker spawned by the same page consuming another 120MB of RAM. This is a lot of stuff happening on what is suppose to be just a news article.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vehicular pollution, construction dust, diesel generators are a common problem in almost all big cities in India. However you are looking at the advantages of villages as a visitor with a point of view towards being closer to nature. There are other problems in villages that you probably won't encounter unless you live there on a day to day basis. Finally, grass is always greener on the other side (holds true for bot…

True, I think if you lived in the village it would be hard for you to escape it and get highly educated. For that you prolly need to move to a big city, but from my immediate reasoning, I could work remotely from the village for the rest of my life as a programmer and could have a higher standard of living then being in the city. But I guess that is due to the nature of my job, rather than anything.

Amenities !

You may not get your favorite loaf of bread, although you'll get fresh organic eggs. You may not be able to watch the latest movies in a theater. A good gymnasium probably won't exist, but you can always run in a grass field. There are countless other differences. People are materialistic & not everyone can make that compromise :)

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#63
post #40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is a long-term threat that requires global action. Old-fashioned air pollution is an immediate threat, one which kills millions of people a year right now , and which can be helped with local action near the affected people. So yes, air pollution is not only more important, but also easier to fix. If anyone disagrees, go visit one of these cities. A few days of burning nasal passages and you probably w…

Seems like both of them might be worth fixing and at least part of the solution is the same.

Definitely, and I certainly wouldn't argue against taking action against CO2 emissions because local air pollution is a bigger problem. Fight both, and where possible find solutions that help both.

The tradeoffs tend to be in smaller fixes anyway. With diesel engines, there's a point where you may have to choose between more CO2 and fewer particulates, or more particulates and less CO2. But obviously both will be improved greatly if you replace that with an electric motor and batteries charged by CO2-neutral energy.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#64
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're two-stroke. Small engines in the developing world are typically terrible - very dirty, very noisy ... and also cheap and easy to fix.

Don't think so, India is typically 4 stroke because of pollution norms and 4 strokes are more fuel efficient which we're very sensitive to. Frankly, India's problem can only be fixed by population control. If Sanjay Gandhi hadn't been an idiot and forever poisoned the idea of population control, India would be much better off, especially if we can get the population to around 300M - 500M

>>India's problem can only be fixed by population control.

And with tax accountability.

>>If Sanjay Gandhi hadn't been an idiot and forever poisoned the idea of population control, India would be much better off, especially if we can get the population to around 300M - 500M

Wrong solutions lead to mistakes from which it is hard to recover. The ideal solution was industrialization and planned urbanization. Urban population levels today have largely stabilized, and in places steadily falling.

Most couples these days don't have more than one kid. So really we will see a decline in population levels as standard of living, and urbanization levels increase. This is a long term solution, there is no short term solution.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#65
post #36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think so, India is typically 4 stroke because of pollution norms and 4 strokes are more fuel efficient which we're very sensitive to. Frankly, India's problem can only be fixed by population control. If Sanjay Gandhi hadn't been an idiot and forever poisoned the idea of population control, India would be much better off, especially if we can get the population to around 300M - 500M

I agree pop growth is an issue... But asking the pop to drop by two thirds is out of bounds. You cannot get that drop without natural decline over many generations or some kind of dreadful calamity. Natural decrease will happen but over generations, with the expected economic consequences of fewer people contributing to an economy. Maybe Japan can show the way, but so far, they are still basing their economy on growt…

Unfortunately, resource war may likely force this to happen. It is not environmentally feasible to support such a large population with a high standard of living and being environmentally friendly.

Frankly, the whole world is going to have to get in line.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#66

The Irony ! When I went to India, I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities. The air in the villages were clean - it was much cooler weather due to not being trapped in the congested cities. The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city. I think its a serious lack of education that India/Bangladesh wi…

I do not think it is crazy for people of villages to think moving to the city is a good idea. It might seem pristine and like paradise to a person from a city visiting a village but for a person living in a village its a different story. It's not the environmental paradise they are trying to escape from, its mostly lack of opportunity. Most villages in India are agriculture based, and most of central and southern India does not have perennial rivers and solely depend on monsoons for irrigation. So, if monsoon fails (less or more than expected), so does their income for he year. Not to mention lack of education, transport, banking etc. I have been to villages where even now if you need education beyond middle school, you need to leave the village for a neighboring town. Not to mention the social pressures such as not having equal opportunities for women in villages where as in a city, it is common place and generally socially accepted for women to have jobs and careers.

I agree about smoking though, and specially the prevalence of the cheap cigarettes called "beedis", these are simply tobacco rolled over in a tobacco leaf and do not even have filters. Being very cheap, it is consumed by the poorer people and when coupled with lack of education, I assume does contributes to lot of smoking related diseases.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#67

So I'm not really sure what happened, but I couldn't read the article because the page ate up more than 1.5GB of RAM on Firefox and caused it to peg an entire core at 100% utilization http://i.imgur.com/j3q686E.png And if I scroll down a bit more you'll find a web worker spawned by the same page consuming another 120MB of RAM. This is a lot of stuff happening on what is suppose to be just a news article.

Memory usage is also annoyingly high in FF for me, but with 380 MB not as high.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#68
post #22

Dare we suggest that air pollution (the old-fashioned kind) is more important than global warming?

Air pollution is killed with known measures, and it goes away as soon as these are enforced. Climate change? We have literally changed the climate for the entirety of humanity's future unless we devise a system, whose energy requirements would overshadow practically anything we have ever invented and whose workings we still don't understand, and even so its impact would take decades, at the very least, to be felt.

I read once about an idea: to stimulate the growth of algae in the oceans by seeding them with iron. It would lead to an algae bloom which will die and settle on the ocean floor, trapping the carbon.

Yep, found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#69

The Irony ! When I went to India, I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities. The air in the villages were clean - it was much cooler weather due to not being trapped in the congested cities. The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city. I think its a serious lack of education that India/Bangladesh wi…

>>I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities.

AND

>>The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city.

Well this is because 'standard of living' these days in India is largely measured through a proxy of wealth you own. Not on the factors you mentioned.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#70
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US buys only great for the air products - anyone that sells in US must make them. Once you have the infrastructure in place - it may be cheaper to produce all clean instead of half clean/half polluting.

Why should the US put all that effort into cleaning up the air in China? For something like CO2 it makes perfect sense. That has global impact, so emissions anywhere are essentially the same. But when it comes to particulates and air quality, it's mostly a local problem. Polluting Chinese factories and cars hurt people in China. The Chinese government and people should be the ones making the effort to clean it up. Th…

>Why should the US put all that effort into cleaning up the air in China?

1) For altruistic reasons: help people who suffer.

2) For selfish reasons: block from markets industrial competitors who are gaining an advantage by applying much poorer environmental norms and therefore take market share.

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