Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier • Hacker News Board

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#91

Post by stcredzero » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:51 PM UTC

I think our first world society accidentally got arranged "bass-ackwards." We've inherited patterns of academia that were developed in a time before mechanized industry and telecommunications -- when mass communication technology consisted of auditoriums and only wealthy young men were expected and could afford to attend.

Why not invent another life-stage past childhood for young adults, during which they are expected to learn, find mates, and raise young children? Really, we're most of the way there with college, but with the weird and biologically contrary expectation that the students avoid having children. Our biology and our psychology seems to encourage human beings to have children at a younger age than our society would have it. Also, the removal of children seems to reduce sexuality to only its hedonistic dimension, which I think is a bit out of balance. (Nothing wrong with hedonism, but that aspect exists in a larger context of life.)

Why not restructure colleges and vocational schools in this way?

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#92

Post by Dirlewanger » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #89

Dirlewanger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may make you happier, but at what cost? Having children is a monumentally massive physical, emotional, financial, and psychological investment. What if there's a problem in the womb and they're born with a physical defect? What if there's a problem at birth and my spouse is now physically scarred for life? What if I get divorced and my wife now legally fucks me out of everything I own, and grooms the children to d…

That's called 'FUD' and it drives lots of decisions. What if ... all of those are small possibilities even added up? Instead let me ask, What if you, as a thoughtful and responsible person do not raise another thoughtful and responsible individual? And instead leave it to the thoughtless and irresponsible. We have to live with that too.

The outcome without kids is 100% up to me though. With kids, one can still raise them to the best of their abilities and still turn out awful for one reason or another.

The second part to that is a different question entirely, and one that goes beyond just one's own happiness.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#93

Post by 5ilv3r » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

throwaway6436 wrote: post #66

You might not want to take parental advice from a fat bastard who sits and plays with his keyboard all day on a computer. Try a grown-up instead. By which I mean, someone who has chosen to develop emotional intelligence. Yes I can see the irony in what I'm saying. Thanks.

Because of you I am reading the article. It's pretty good so far.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#94

Post by bigtex » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

sosuke wrote: post #51

rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

No data to back up my feeling that most of the pressure stay at home women get is from other women. My wife stays at home and we buck any negative comment together to keep those feelings at bay. We show we are proud of it, not ashamed by it and we aren't willing to let anyone else belittle our choices. Any negative comment, any off-hand comment needs to be squashed immediately. Same thing happens with self-esteem iss…

I can confirm that it is pressure from other women because my wife has heard the same. It seems that a woman can choose any profession she wants just not to stay at home with the children.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#95

Post by kgwgk » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #70

I think the stress and financial cost that having children in the US creates are much larger than in other western countries. I currently don't have children and would not think of moving back to my home country Germany. However, if I had children I would be back in Germany in no time. The entire education system is on average more reliably good and much cheaper.

I don't know if the situation is worse in the US, but people is clearly more averse to having children in Germany:

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/soc_glance-2014-en/03/02/...

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#96

Post by 5ilv3r » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

jonheller wrote: post #61

Jeff Atwood's "On Parenthood" is by far the best and most honest piece I've ever read on what being a parent is like. https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood/

Thanks for the link. That was some really interesting stuff. The "getting the first four years of your life back" bit was pretty spot on.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#97

Post by munificent » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

> maybe the societal pressure for women is immense.

It is. I think feminism left our culture with the belief that it is OK for a woman to opt in to do anything she wants. But we didn't also get the message that it's OK to opt out.

Want a career? Great! Want to raise kids? Great!

Want to not have a career? Bad! Want to not raise kids? Bad!

It's unfair. I've watched almost every single woman I know in my age bracket (late thirties today) struggle with this dilemma in her life at some point. Instead of feeling that they can do anything, they feel they have to do everything.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#98

Post by tezzer » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

blablablame wrote: post #75

a2tech wrote: post #24

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children. I know this is a small selection of college educated people with comfortable lifestyles, but when every single person I know discloses to me when they're in a truthful state that we're better off not having kids..it makes you think.

I get drunk every so often (when my kid isn't around) and I still I love the little bugger and wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I don't suggest people to be parents (some folks won't be happy with that choice) but you must run in very weird circles if every parent friend you have tells you not to have kids when they are tipsy.

maybe they're just saying he, specifically, shouldn't have kids ;)

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#99

Post by tezzer » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:41 PM UTC

My daughters make me very happy, and I'm a better person because I'm trying to make sure they're smart, well adjusted and have good lives.

The point of the article is the U.S. has a weak social net to help parents compared to Europe. I feel that. In the short term I'm broke and worried all the time (because day care and housing in Silicon Valley will kill you). In the long term it'll all be fine, and maybe I'm mostly chafing against having to budget (both money and time) for the first time in my life.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#100

Post by markc » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 6:54 PM UTC

infinite8s wrote: post #31

balls187 wrote: post #23

Basic armchair psychology will tell you, nothing can make you happy. Your happiness is your own responsibility. Not all parents may understand that having children may mean drastic changes to lifestyle, and may not have been prepared for the ~27 years of stress that having children bring on. Oddly enough, having kids gives me a purpose in Society, that otherwise being a 36 year old man would not have. Too old to join…

27 years? One would hope by 18 years of age one's child (in the descendant sense) would be fairly independent.

It does decline, but I think the 27 years is meant to include College, finding a job, a mate, a home - i.e. "launched" and independent. 27 seems to be a somewhat arbitrary number as is my list of "launched" criteria, but in the US kids can no longer be on their parents health-care plans after age 26. That's a significant milestone for many.