Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World • Hacker News Board

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#221

Post by ionised » Wed, Jul 06, 2016, 8:43 AM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #91

jacquesm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter. In the real world you need taxes to operate a country and with big business being able to relocate their capital and their profits at a moments notice corporations have a substantial advantage over nation states (which ar…

> In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter. Why is it bad when businesses find that conditions for them constantly get better everywhere? Is there something inherently evil or bad about businesses? This is usually a position hardcore Socalists would take. > In th…

Because nations need taxes, not a few rich people or organisations at the top.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#222

Post by ionised » Wed, Jul 06, 2016, 9:54 AM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #173

"Lefties" isn't really an insult any more than "neoliberals" is. It's just a description of a political position. What you're doing here though, is classical left-ism: taking an innocuous statement and claiming it's terribly offensive in order to distract from his/her point.

'Lefty' is just dismissing someone's viewpoint as invalid because it differes from your own. It's a way to argue without actually saying anything of value.

'Neoliberal' on the other hand is a term with quite well-defined definitions.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#223

Post by RobertKerans » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 11:26 AM UTC

ionised wrote: post #214

marknutter wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the original post that referred to "neoliberalism" as the root of all our problems isn't being just as simplistic in their reasoning?

Neoliberalism is a phenomenon with quite well defined characteristics, so no. 'Lefties' used to dismiss another's point of view as invalid withiut actually explaining why is just baselessly tribal and antagonistic.

Oh, no doubt about that, it's distinctly unhelpful in any political conversation (unless the aim is to deliberately trying wind up the other person in the conversation)

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#224

Post by RobertKerans » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

ionised wrote: post #214

marknutter wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the original post that referred to "neoliberalism" as the root of all our problems isn't being just as simplistic in their reasoning?

Neoliberalism is a phenomenon with quite well defined characteristics, so no. 'Lefties' used to dismiss another's point of view as invalid withiut actually explaining why is just baselessly tribal and antagonistic.

Well, for the very reasons discussed here, that's debatable due mainly to it being turned into a snarl word, mainly by those on the left-hand side.

But yeah, definitely so re your second point, it is needlessly antagonising, and destroys measured political discussion (as it always has and always will)

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#225

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 12:39 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #212

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a funny sort on non-emotive decision that causes a massive rise in racist violence.

"Massive"? You mean a handful of cases?

> you mean a handful of cases

Not as such, no

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/police-blame...

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/08/brexit-racism-more-than-3000-h...

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#226

Post by cmurf » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 10:09 PM UTC

marknutter wrote: post #202

cmurf wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusion is reached by distinguishing between earned and unearned income. Unearned income is essentially investment income, and there is no FICA tax on that income, and it's taxed based on your earned income tax bracket, which could end up making it 0% and thus not taxed at all if you have no earned income. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/2015-capital-gains... Further, while it is true that "federal i…

It's unearned income. In other words: no income. They will get taxes the full 15% rate when they sell the asset so what does it matter if it's 0% in the year they don't sell it other than to sell a narrative? I'm sorry if somebody's assets appreciate over time but to call that income is just dishonest. I hate how people constantly move the goalposts when it come to claiming that a certain minority of people aren't "p…

>It's unearned income. In other words: no income. No that's wrong, it is income. Examples of unearned income are dividends and interest, and capital gains. These are taxed at a lower income tax rate than earned income, i.e. income from a salaried job. And unearned income is not subject to FICA tax.

You have to make enough money for starters in order to have income sources that are unearned, so yes this is favored at people who make money. The very wealthy, the 1%, aren't making this money from earned income, they make it from unearned income.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#227

Post by m-i-l » Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 10:06 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #180

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hope, but does Trump and brexit look different? And if so, does it look better?

Yes, very. Brexit was a decision about a policy, Trump is a decision about a man. The key personalities of Brexit are now all gone. What remains is the policy.

Brexit should have been a decision about policy, but appears not to have been - that is one of the points of the article.

The EU appears to have been too complex a subject for many voters to fully understand, and there was allegedly widespread distrust of the "experts", leading to large numbers basing their decision on emotional responses instead, such as "I don't trust the experts so I'm going to do the opposite of what they recommend" and "I like this bloke who talks about listening to the 'little people' and 'taking back control'".

I know there are some people who voted Leave for well-thought-out reasons, and that I can respect, because it is rational. But most analysis suggests the majority who voted Leave did not do so for rational reasons. In which case it is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And it is not as though this was a local or a general election - this has made England and Wales look very bad on the world stage, and is something we're all going to have to live with for a very long time.