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Why most people don't like jazz

dyske.com

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#61

Post by swannodette »

The state of music commentary on this thread is low enough to be insulting and pretty much validates the article. I find it humorous that a website that draws people dedicated to abstract thought can have such a mediocre understanding of music and music history. Do yourself a favor, find a piece of music that you think you don't like. Sit down and listen to it 50 times without distraction so that you know all the changes, turns, asides, tensions, contractions, contradictions, and undulations. If you still don't like, fine.

But I say 9 times out of 10 with this approach you'll realize you know so little about music and there is much more to know and you'll be practically giddy to expand your knowledge.

The distance between Arnold Schoenberg and Lady Gaga is less than you think.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#62

Post by stcredzero »

heyitsnick wrote: post #49
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been playing gigs as a Irish Trad musician for 20 years. There are an astonishing number of Americans who can't clap on the beat. There are also lots of Americans who can clap somewhere near the beat, but then are still without awareness of how small variations in timing and emphasis can change the feel or swing of the beat. There are a disturbingly large number of people who -- by their own account -- can't dis…

Why do you consider this both astonishing and disturbing? I don't find this surprising, nor do I see the problem.

Funny you should say that. Those who I find astonishing and disturbing in this way seldom see the problem.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#63

Post by davi »

ecoffey wrote: post #44

I thought I was the only one who didn't pay attention to lyrics. My friend and I kinda of resemble that dynamic. He loves some of the shittiest songs (imo) because of interesting lyrical content, where as I totally ignore them. If I like them it's because of how they were sung not because of me diving through looking for "meaning". That's why after all these years Pinback is still one of my favorite bands. Their voic…

I also don't really listen to lyrics, largely because it is hard for me. I think I actually have some sort of perceptual incapacity -- I have to really try to understand them, whereas it seems other people hear them very easily. Even when I try, it's hard. I'm smart in other ways, but in this regard I am comparatively deficient. Anybody else on HN share this 'syndrome'?

For me, music has always been about structure, tone, melody -- I like the Eagles, for example, but when I started hearing the lyrics (it took me a while, and they're pretty easy), I was like, "Man, these guys are cheesy!" In some agreement with this article, I love jazz. Check out my friend Daniel Levin for how far out I like it: http://www.daniel-levin.com (annoying flash site but has samples of his music)

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#64

Post by prewett »

bryanh wrote: post #34
mortenjorck wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am indeed guilty of neglecting this. So is everyone else, but I guess it stands out to me because I do consider it a worthwhile goal, to sit on the sofa, put on something like Jóhann Jóhannsson's IBM 1401: A Users' Manual , and just listen to the movements the way I would watch a movie. But I never do. I always feel like I have to be doing something while listening to music, simply because it's possible. It's true;…

It seems society has a notion that music alone cannot in and of itself be the only event.

I know I do. I finally gave up going to classical music concerts even though I love classical music because after about 30 minutes, my brain was too tired to listen to the music any more and my mind wandered.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#65

Post by philwelch »

I have this same argument with my girlfriend all the time--not about jazz, per se (which I haven't gotten into) but about the general topic of music vs. lyrics. Some of my favorite songs I still don't know all the lyrics to, but she knows them by heart even though she zones out during the guitar solos. And her favorite songs, I listen to the basic instrumental loop and get bored with it.

There are ways to learn to listen to instruments, though. You just have to consciously do what an instrumental listener does unconsciously, which is to focus on instruments instead of vocals. You can start by picking out one instrument and following it throughout the song, though as you learn the song better you start learning when to switch between instruments and eventually how to absorb the gestalt of them.

I'm not totally uninterested in lyrics, but they have to have something to play against that enhances them rather than just being there.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#66

Post by stcredzero »

sp332 wrote: post #43
dan_sim wrote: post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

It's very true. A lot of the visceral oomph of music like Jazz comes from its early association with dance. "It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing." The sensuality of a certain kind of step, a certain kind of movement is transmitted in the beat and the music. Understanding this brings many people flat-out joy. In my opiniion, understanding this makes one more human.

That last part, you just have to experience to truly understand. But believe me, if you are doing it right, it really is something close to transcendent. It really is magic.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#67

Post by eru »

smokinn wrote: post #38

I don't really need a whole blog post to explain why people don't like jazz; it's because to most people it sounds like a cacophony of random noise. (Especially in "live jams") Unless you've studied music and know what they're trying to show, where they're going and the technical difficulty involved, you just won't be able to appreciate it. He does being up a very valid point though which was crystallized for me when…

The formula for producing (potential) hit songs are pretty well-known. Not all follow this schema, e.g. Blue Monday from New Order, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#68

Post by raganwald »

jerf wrote: post #35
CoreDumpling wrote: post #18

By this logic, English-language opera (yes, it exists) ought to be doing well in America. Check your local opera house schedule and see how many performances you can find that are not in Italian, German, or French. There is some merit to this argument, that some music can't be appreciated as easily unless you attach it something people can easily relate to. Even classical music isn't immune to this, hence the existen…

"By this logic, English-language opera (yes, it exists) ought to be doing well in America." We call them "musicals". They're doing OK. If you want to argue that a "musical" is an "opera plus some stuff added to make it more palatable to visually-oriented Americans" I'm not going to argue.

I was under the impression that a musical is a spoken word play where the actors break out into song and dance on a regular basis, whereas in an opera the singers rarely dance or speak.

If that is the case, the difference between musicals and opera is more than just the language. and actually supports the author's point that American culture needs visual stimulation (the dance) and words they can easily understand (the spoken lines).

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#69

Post by stan_rogers »

bryanh wrote: post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

Earlier today, in fact. But it's not so much the attention span thing that gets in the way (I play reeds, by the way) but the intellectual masturbation of a lot of jazz that turns people off.

I've yet to run into anybody who turns their nose up at, say, Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", which is certainly rhythmically sophisticated but tuneful, or Kenny Burrell's "Midnight Blue" (an album that's usually the first up for visitors). It's the "I'm an artiste, dammit" attitude, the cleverness for cleverness' sake, the removal of anything remotely engaging at a visceral level -- the attempt to emulate in the jazz idiom what Schoenberg perpetrated on "serious" music -- that forces people to decide that the Emperor is without skivvies to cover his shame.

Lyrical content is a red herring as well. There's a lot of dance crap (and some that's not crap) that gets heavy rotation in the wider world that is entirely word-free.

Okay, jazz is all about painting oneself into a corner and finding imaginative ways of escaping the trap you've set for yourself, but there's no harm in playing something that manages to capture a tune along the way rather than merely tracking the letter of the changes. Too many jazzers forget that it's still music.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#70

Post by dan_sim »

mixmax wrote: post #54
dan_sim wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're so right. Jazz musicians are boring. Worst than that, I hear them complain every time that "the crowd was not in it". So, they don't even try to be less boring, they blame their clients for it. Way to go jazzmen!

I've shared an apartment with three jazz musicians, and I can assure you that they're not boring.

I mean, they are not boring in their everyday life. They are boring when they do a show.
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