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Why most people don't like jazz

dyske.com

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#31

Post by dan_sim »

keyist wrote: post #6

An interesting corollary is that jazz musicians tend to not have as striking an image when it comes to their marketing. Compare what you first visualize when you hear the names KISS or Flava Flav versus say Brad Mehldau or Keith Jarrett. EDIT: This is probably due to jazz musicians taking themselves more seriously and wanting to be known more for their music than anything else. If a jazz artist enlisted Dir En Grey's…

You're so right. Jazz musicians are boring. Worst than that, I hear them complain every time that "the crowd was not in it". So, they don't even try to be less boring, they blame their clients for it. Way to go jazzmen!

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#34

Post by bryanh »

mortenjorck wrote: post #26
bryanh wrote: post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

I am indeed guilty of neglecting this. So is everyone else, but I guess it stands out to me because I do consider it a worthwhile goal, to sit on the sofa, put on something like Jóhann Jóhannsson's IBM 1401: A Users' Manual , and just listen to the movements the way I would watch a movie. But I never do. I always feel like I have to be doing something while listening to music, simply because it's possible. It's true;…

It seems society has a notion that music alone cannot in and of itself be the only event.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#35

Post by jerf »

CoreDumpling wrote: post #18

By this logic, English-language opera (yes, it exists) ought to be doing well in America. Check your local opera house schedule and see how many performances you can find that are not in Italian, German, or French. There is some merit to this argument, that some music can't be appreciated as easily unless you attach it something people can easily relate to. Even classical music isn't immune to this, hence the existen…

"By this logic, English-language opera (yes, it exists) ought to be doing well in America."

We call them "musicals". They're doing OK.

If you want to argue that a "musical" is an "opera plus some stuff added to make it more palatable to visually-oriented Americans" I'm not going to argue.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#36

Post by timwiseman »

Its an interesting concept, and I do agree that to a degree he is right. But that is definitely not the whole of it.

Personally, I enjoy a variety of classical musical and some modern purely instrumental music (TSO for instance has many purely instrumental pieces that are classically inspired, as does their forerunner Savatage, though the connection to the classical inspiration is less obvious there.) I still do not like jazz. In my admittedly limited exposure to it, I find much of it to be rather dissonant and atonal (I am well aware there are multiple types of jazz and not all will have these properties)

I suspect I could acquire a taste for it if I wished and spent some time studying it, but I have seen no reason to yet. I rather enjoy classical, metal, and hard rock and there is enough depth there to keep me quite satisfied for many lifetimes.

It is quite easy to enjoy and appreciate instrumental music without enjoying or appreciating jazz.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#37

Post by mattmcknight »

snitko wrote: post #3

It's not the problem of lyrics vs words in the first place. It's a problem of lack of musical education. Give a person a guitar or a piano and within a year she starts paying attention to the composition and performing skills. And her tastes may change dramatically too. So in a sense, I consider "listening to words" not as an alternative point of view, but rather a lack of musical training. Sure, words may simply be…

I agree with your first point, the author's claim that it is an instrumental vs. lyrics problem is not accurate. There are easy counter examples, such as the popularity of instrumental dance music, which often features very little in the way of lyrics and the vapid nature of most pop songs, as well as the ability of many listeners to appreciate music performed in a language other than their own.

The problem with a lot of jazz, what I would call "bad" jazz, is that it is formless noodling. It is in areas like jazz solos, jam rock bands, rock guitar solos, etc. that one hears the admirer comment on the difficultly level of the performance versus the coherent melodies and hooks of popular music, and even many popular classical works.

The popular jazz standards have melodic hooks that cause people to like and remember them. Beyond that surface, a vast majority of jazz musicians are more focused on the intricacies of group performance than composition. Sure more musical education, or better brains, would enable people to develop their memories to be able to recall and hum along with longer and more complex note sequences, but you still need to compose them- and repeat them. (Recall the Mark E Smith formula for pop music "Repetition. Repetition. Repetition.")

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#38

Post by smokinn »

I don't really need a whole blog post to explain why people don't like jazz; it's because to most people it sounds like a cacophony of random noise. (Especially in "live jams")

Unless you've studied music and know what they're trying to show, where they're going and the technical difficulty involved, you just won't be able to appreciate it.

He does being up a very valid point though which was crystallized for me when I heard "How you remind me of someday". Basically Nickelback had this one really popular song called "How you remind me" and then, later, released another really popular song called "Someday". It was the same song. To prove the point someone mashed them together, putting "How you remind me" in the left speaker and "Someday" in the right speaker. The result was amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvujgcbaCF8

Talk about formulaic.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#39

Post by swannodette »

CoreDumpling wrote: post #18

By this logic, English-language opera (yes, it exists) ought to be doing well in America. Check your local opera house schedule and see how many performances you can find that are not in Italian, German, or French. There is some merit to this argument, that some music can't be appreciated as easily unless you attach it something people can easily relate to. Even classical music isn't immune to this, hence the existen…

"I think the difference today is that the context itself has changed. We've transitioned to an urban, fast-paced lifestyle and have lost touch with the beauty of nature from which many instrumental pieces draw inspiration."

Huh? Most classical pieces of music were written in urban centers not on some farm. Same with jazz. Jazz is fiercely urban. But what we have today is carcass. But between 1930-1970 some crazy st went down.

"The host on my local classical station once remarked that there are only two serious topics in music: God and sex. Though I'm not religious, I can tell that these days it's much less of the former and more of the latter."

In it's heyday jazz were certainly about Sex.

"That said, I wouldn't be so pessimistic right now. Think long-term: in 100 years, how many people will still be listening to Brahms, and how many will still be listening to Britney Spears?"

This is just too reductionistic. Folk (aka pop) music and classical (aka serious) music have been forever intertwined. Whether the average music listener appreciates doesn't change that.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#40

Post by shadowsun7 »

snitko wrote: post #3

It's not the problem of lyrics vs words in the first place. It's a problem of lack of musical education. Give a person a guitar or a piano and within a year she starts paying attention to the composition and performing skills. And her tastes may change dramatically too. So in a sense, I consider "listening to words" not as an alternative point of view, but rather a lack of musical training. Sure, words may simply be…

For what it's worth, research has shown that people who speak languages with tonal differences (like Chinese, Vietnamese etc) tend to be far more likely to develop perfect pitch.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/18/china.highereduc...

Not sure if that contributes to musical education, but my guess is that perfect pitch should have something to do with it.

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