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Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

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Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#21
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting too political, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Black Lives Matters movement is to address differences between the life the average black person is afforded vs. that of a non-minority person (ie. white). There's a strong correlation between black and being poor, and perhaps the solution is not to create a divide by race, but rather by socioeconomic status. A lot of problems we have today,…

Do you happen to have (or ever looked at) the statistics for criminality of low-income whites? I'd be curious for that comparison - let's say murder rate (as these things are less likely to be covered up) across bottom 10% of income by race.

The mortality gap between white and black Americans still exists, but has closed dramatically in recent decades.

Mortality rates are still far worse for men than women though. But particularly, that poverty affects male mortality far more than poverty affects female mortality. E.g. Mortality rates for financially disadvantaged white males is still very significantly worse than for black women (where as black male mortality is still worse than for either - but dramatically less worse compared to white males than it was a couple of decades ago).

http://voxeu.org/article/mortality-inequality-good-news-coun...

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#22
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting too political, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Black Lives Matters movement is to address differences between the life the average black person is afforded vs. that of a non-minority person (ie. white). There's a strong correlation between black and being poor, and perhaps the solution is not to create a divide by race, but rather by socioeconomic status. A lot of problems we have today,…

Do you happen to have (or ever looked at) the statistics for criminality of low-income whites? I'd be curious for that comparison - let's say murder rate (as these things are less likely to be covered up) across bottom 10% of income by race.

That said, black Americans are relatively more likely to be financially disadvantaged in the first place (which skews the weight of attention warranted I guess).

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow Australian, you're misrepresenting the issue. Yes, there is currently a government program to try and reduce domestic violence against women. Yes, domestic violence happens in the other direction, and in gay couples as well, but the preponderance of the damage done is received by women. It's a social problem, and the government's job is to try to help social problems. There's also social movements around…

He's not misrepresenting the DV policy when Turnbull makes comments like, quote: "domestic violence - which is just violence against women". 40% of DV homicide victims in Australia are male and 20% are children (52% of those kids killed by women). That's from Australian Institute of Criminology (2015) on 10 years of official National Homicide Monitoring Program data. Women aren't even the majority of DV homicide vict…

You are making the mistake of assuming that DV is only represented by homicide counts. It's a bit like those anti-abortion campaigners who only use third-trimester abortion as their talking point, when third-trimester abortion accounts for less than 0.1% of abortions. Using the extreme case in place of the general case doesn't do anyone any favours. Your link does point out that violence swings both ways and that women tend to be the more violent partner, but it also points out that women are more likely to be injured. Men aren't getting dangerously injured by DV to the point where there's enough to support several battered men's shelters in every major city.

And you know something? "So what"? So what if women get this one in their favour? Who really gives a fuck? Men get plenty of other things in their favour, let the women 'win' one for once. I never see this kind of impassioned reasoning and stats-counting from men arguing for things that benefit women. Women's sport funding is an absolute joke in comparison to men's funding in this country, but I don't see frothy stats about that. Similarly there are government awareness programs targeting men's depression that women don't get. And is 20% more women graduating uni really that much of an advantage, given that men heavily outgun women in trades apprenticeships (more lucrative than many uni degrees, certainly more lucrative than mine), and degrees mean less and less as time goes on?

You talk about building respect, but you're also arguing against any effort that's not totally even-handed if it benefits women. Targeted campaigns work, and there's no reason why we can't have one for men in the future, but seriously, by demanding perfect you are being the enemy of good.

Yes, there's sexism against men. I remember in my early twenties when a woman who liked me punched me on the arm so hard it left a sizable bruise. I didn't mention it, because as a man you're 'supposed to just take it', and of course if I did the opposite it'd make the entire pub fall silent. Likewise, a hippy acquaintance of mine says that he feels like he can't watch children play in the park because people act like he's a paedophile, when he's just enjoying kids having fun. That doesn't mean we should mope about government initiatives because they don't target us. Do you decry any assistance aborigines get that white folks don't? Think that Abstudy is unfair compared to Austudy? Do you decry language assistance to immigrants because aussies don't get assistance to learn foreign languages?

I fully support the anti-domestic-violence ads, because they get this distasteful topic out into the open and overtly say "this is not on". I don't care that it's targeted to violence against women. It's a good thing in and of itself (the ads, not the violence :) ), and whether or not it's politically motivated is beside the point of the good it can do. And if you want actual gender equality, that means giving up a lot of things that us men take for granted, like the aforementioned sports funding.

Perhaps a better way for me to put it is this: stop whiteanting things that women have built to better their lot, and do something to better men's lot (or everyone's lot). I see this in a lot of complaints that men have about gender bias against men - they only start talking when women succeed at getting a project off the ground. I have never seen a man talk about DV in a public forum without DV against women starting that conversation, and a decade ago I used to do the same thing: pointing out DV against men and supplying links, but only in response to discussion of DV against women. Thing is though, those projects to help people do take a lot of work, and they're better for society in general. So instead of decrying the ones that do exist, people should promote ones that aren't off the ground yet if they feel there's an imbalance. Do something constructive for the men (or for all), rather than destroying something for the women. Inevitably the "what about the men" is forgotten about until the next time a women's initiative takes off. So rather than say "God, that's sexist!", say "Fucking about time we got into a public discussion about DV and how to stop it!". Talking about DV doesn't mean we can't also talk about mental health, and it may even help strengthen the push to improve mental health.

I do agree that the topic is more nuanced, but the media, government, and general public aren't into talking that level of nuance (to whit: One Nation is going to get two senators and possibly a lower house seat, and Hanson makes Trump look educated).

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#24
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not misrepresenting the DV policy when Turnbull makes comments like, quote: "domestic violence - which is just violence against women". 40% of DV homicide victims in Australia are male and 20% are children (52% of those kids killed by women). That's from Australian Institute of Criminology (2015) on 10 years of official National Homicide Monitoring Program data. Women aren't even the majority of DV homicide vict…

You are making the mistake of assuming that DV is only represented by homicide counts. It's a bit like those anti-abortion campaigners who only use third-trimester abortion as their talking point, when third-trimester abortion accounts for less than 0.1% of abortions. Using the extreme case in place of the general case doesn't do anyone any favours. Your link does point out that violence swings both ways and that wom…

I should probably clarify and TL;DR a bit - I don't think you personally are coming from a place of "what about the menz", but out of a sense of fairness. I felt the same a decade ago when I did the same thing - these discussions 'aren't fair'. But I also didn't do anything about it afterwards, despite my passionate words, and the net effect of stopping a program like this would be a disadvantage to both sides.

Ultimately, the anti-DV ads here in Australia can't be gamed for advantage. A cunning woman can't game being hit less to gain advantage over men. No man is going to lose his chance at employment or education because a woman was beaten less. It's not a zero-sum game. We can have the dialogue about DV against men separately to this one about women; even though there is some overlap, the general experience is different. The men's DV discussion also necessarily includes getting men to open up about emotions more; be more willing to ask for personal help and so forth.

But the final TL;DR is that this particular program is not much of a vehicle for one gender to gain significant advantage over the other.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not misrepresenting the DV policy when Turnbull makes comments like, quote: "domestic violence - which is just violence against women". 40% of DV homicide victims in Australia are male and 20% are children (52% of those kids killed by women). That's from Australian Institute of Criminology (2015) on 10 years of official National Homicide Monitoring Program data. Women aren't even the majority of DV homicide vict…

You are making the mistake of assuming that DV is only represented by homicide counts. It's a bit like those anti-abortion campaigners who only use third-trimester abortion as their talking point, when third-trimester abortion accounts for less than 0.1% of abortions. Using the extreme case in place of the general case doesn't do anyone any favours. Your link does point out that violence swings both ways and that wom…

So White Ribbon Australia was a women's initiative now (before they entirely took it over and turned it against men)? Well that's some nice rewriting of history.

Maybe a few more women should be focusing on what THEY can do to reduce their contribution to violence too, rather than just expecting men to do that for them.

If you want to know what women actually did to get DV shelters off the ground, then I highly recommend you do some research on who Erin Pizzey is (who founded the whole movement) and what she thinks of the situation.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not misrepresenting the DV policy when Turnbull makes comments like, quote: "domestic violence - which is just violence against women". 40% of DV homicide victims in Australia are male and 20% are children (52% of those kids killed by women). That's from Australian Institute of Criminology (2015) on 10 years of official National Homicide Monitoring Program data. Women aren't even the majority of DV homicide vict…

You are making the mistake of assuming that DV is only represented by homicide counts. It's a bit like those anti-abortion campaigners who only use third-trimester abortion as their talking point, when third-trimester abortion accounts for less than 0.1% of abortions. Using the extreme case in place of the general case doesn't do anyone any favours. Your link does point out that violence swings both ways and that wom…

> "And you know something? \"So what\"? So what if women get this one in their favour? Who really gives a fuck? "

Maybe the rest of the family of kids who women bludgeoned to death, burnt alive, cut into pieces, stuffed down drains etc (all recent cases here). Maybe also the guys who've been stabbed a few too many times, hit in the back of the head with frying pans, etc.

p.s. Hospital record audits show extremely similar injuries for both genders from DV in Australia, with the exception that men present with more lacerations (because women use weapons more) and women present with slightly more bruising (because men rarely present unless life threatening). The only likely exception to that is Aboriginal communities, with somewhat different traditional gender roles (women at significantly higher risk) than the wider population and more commonly impacted by poverty, drugs & alcohol etc.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#27
post #7

Every day most of the crimes committed are against women from the Port Moresby slum areas. Ah, systemic poverty rears its ugly head again. This is, no doubt, related in part to the fact that 97% of the land is owned as tribal land, which seriously hampers modern economic development: The PNG legislature has enacted laws in which a type of tenure called "customary land title" is recognised, meaning that the traditiona…

Well, I seem to have failed to cite my source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea#Land_tenure

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Casinos are largely a means to redistribute money, not create new value. Merely redistributing money is very much decried as a bad thing when we do it in the form of welfare. This would apply just as much to the music industry as it does to the gambling industry. Casinos do create value; they create entertainment value. It doesn't become less valuable when a company you don't like produces it.

As someone who writes fiction, I respectfully disagree. Art, music and other forms of so called entertainment often elevate the mind and spirit, help people cope with emotional issues and accomplish a great deal more than pissing the night away. Video games and other forms of entertainment are generally going to have more value for developing people than your typical game of gambling. It has nothing to do with me per…

> I think entertainment has real value for the human species. But not all entertainment is equally valuable.

> It has nothing to do with me personally disliking it.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who writes fiction, I respectfully disagree. Art, music and other forms of so called entertainment often elevate the mind and spirit, help people cope with emotional issues and accomplish a great deal more than pissing the night away. Video games and other forms of entertainment are generally going to have more value for developing people than your typical game of gambling. It has nothing to do with me per…

> I think entertainment has real value for the human species. But not all entertainment is equally valuable. > It has nothing to do with me personally disliking it.

My father was a gambler. I deal left-handed because you couldn't have a relationship to him if you didn't play cards, so I learned to deal at age 4 when I was too young to understand that mirroring what he did caused it to be the opposite hand.

I caught him cheating when I was 12 because I was skinning him alive and his ego couldn't take it. We were betting with Christmas cookies and I was winning about 2/3s of the hands and he balked at that.

I have zero problem with gambling and I no way dislike it.

I still believe that, generally speaking, music (your example of entertainment) as well as art, fiction and many other forms of entertainment generally provide greater value to the human race than gambling does.

So, please, kindly, stop with the ad hominems -- "YOU just don't like it" -- which are against the rules here, and give me your argument as to why gambling has as much or more value as other forms of entertainment or kindly leave me alone.

Thanks.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#30
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think entertainment has real value for the human species. But not all entertainment is equally valuable. > It has nothing to do with me personally disliking it.

My father was a gambler. I deal left-handed because you couldn't have a relationship to him if you didn't play cards, so I learned to deal at age 4 when I was too young to understand that mirroring what he did caused it to be the opposite hand. I caught him cheating when I was 12 because I was skinning him alive and his ego couldn't take it. We were betting with Christmas cookies and I was winning about 2/3s of the h…

> give me your argument as to why gambling has as much or more value as other forms of entertainment or kindly leave me alone

I hardly need to do this; you are self-refuting.

You've said that better forms of entertainment produce value by "elevating the mind and spirit" (this is a raw statement of your personal values, not a phenomenon that can be observed) and "helping people cope with emotional issues" (as do all activities).

You've said that gambling is not valuable because it doesn't "help people eat nutritious food, breathe clean air, and so on". Neither do any other forms of entertainment, such as the art and fiction you praise. You've complained that the economic effect of gambling is purely redistributive. Once you've assumed away the benefits, that's true of almost all services.

Your stated concerns make no sense. People who like gambling and dislike pleasure reading are alien to me, but you have no grounds from which to say that they're wrong to believe they get more value from the gambling.

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