Live data from Hacker News

Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

vladsokhin.com

11–20 of 46 posts

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#11
post #7

Every day most of the crimes committed are against women from the Port Moresby slum areas. Ah, systemic poverty rears its ugly head again. This is, no doubt, related in part to the fact that 97% of the land is owned as tribal land, which seriously hampers modern economic development: The PNG legislature has enacted laws in which a type of tenure called "customary land title" is recognised, meaning that the traditiona…

> Casinos are largely a means to redistribute money, not create new value. Merely redistributing money is very much decried as a bad thing when we do it in the form of welfare.

This would apply just as much to the music industry as it does to the gambling industry. Casinos do create value; they create entertainment value. It doesn't become less valuable when a company you don't like produces it.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying that violence can happen to anyone. In Australia, we have a very sexist attitude toward violence. The media (and our own minister for sexism) only ever talk about male perpetrators and female victims. This article mentions twice that the majority of victims are women(about 2/3), but it purposely ignores violence against men. My wife said to me the other day, "today's society is more sexist than w…

So they say "Female Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter". If I learned anything from "Black Lives Matter", it is that this type of response is not acceptable and does a lot to diminish the original message.

Without getting too political, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Black Lives Matters movement is to address differences between the life the average black person is afforded vs. that of a non-minority person (ie. white).

There's a strong correlation between black and being poor, and perhaps the solution is not to create a divide by race, but rather by socioeconomic status. A lot of problems we have today, faced both by black people and poor people alike, can be solved by addressing the problems in poor neighbourhoods.

Of course that is not to say all black people are poor, that would be ridiculous. But in the mind of someone who thinks in a certain way, because a person is black it means that they are in fact more likely to be from a poorer family, may have received lesser education, etc. So I think socioeconomic status is a much more fair and less divisive way grouping people.

"All lives matter" is certainly reactionary, but I think there's truth to the idea the BLM isn't the correct way to solve the problem.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#13
post #7

Every day most of the crimes committed are against women from the Port Moresby slum areas. Ah, systemic poverty rears its ugly head again. This is, no doubt, related in part to the fact that 97% of the land is owned as tribal land, which seriously hampers modern economic development: The PNG legislature has enacted laws in which a type of tenure called "customary land title" is recognised, meaning that the traditiona…

> Casinos are largely a means to redistribute money, not create new value. Merely redistributing money is very much decried as a bad thing when we do it in the form of welfare. This would apply just as much to the music industry as it does to the gambling industry. Casinos do create value; they create entertainment value. It doesn't become less valuable when a company you don't like produces it.

As someone who writes fiction, I respectfully disagree. Art, music and other forms of so called entertainment often elevate the mind and spirit, help people cope with emotional issues and accomplish a great deal more than pissing the night away.

Video games and other forms of entertainment are generally going to have more value for developing people than your typical game of gambling.

It has nothing to do with me personally disliking it. It has to do with me being concerned that this solution doesn't add real value to the system to help people eat nutritious food, breathe clean air and so on.

I think entertainment has real value for the human species. But not all entertainment is equally valuable.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#14
post #5

Port Moresby is one of the more dangerous places to travel, no matter what gender you are: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/papua-new-guinea/sa... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/22/population.dav... http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012/09/20129289... If you're male you're less likely to get raped by the local criminal gangs (who I presume are predominantly not interested in sexual rela…

Yes and no. You could walk around downtown out to Ela beach without too much trouble as long as you don't look well off. Once outside that area, you need a crew.

When my colleagues and I were traveling there, we would play a game: What is the worst story in the paper during your trip?

I think the winner was a riot over cabbages that resulted in multiple fatalities. Also saw stories of people robbed in the lobby of the police station.

What is crazy is that PNG was a member of RAMSI, an organization that was tasked with keeping order in the Solomon Islands.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#15
post #5

Port Moresby is one of the more dangerous places to travel, no matter what gender you are: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/papua-new-guinea/sa... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/22/population.dav... http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012/09/20129289... If you're male you're less likely to get raped by the local criminal gangs (who I presume are predominantly not interested in sexual rela…

Thank you for saying that violence can happen to anyone. In Australia, we have a very sexist attitude toward violence. The media (and our own minister for sexism) only ever talk about male perpetrators and female victims. This article mentions twice that the majority of victims are women(about 2/3), but it purposely ignores violence against men. My wife said to me the other day, "today's society is more sexist than w…

As a fellow Australian, you're misrepresenting the issue. Yes, there is currently a government program to try and reduce domestic violence against women. Yes, domestic violence happens in the other direction, and in gay couples as well, but the preponderance of the damage done is received by women. It's a social problem, and the government's job is to try to help social problems.

There's also social movements around violence against men. Have a look at Aussie Rules and how 'family-oriented' it has become. Long gone are the days where playing on through a bloody face was a mark of honour. The official football groups condemn violence left, right, and centre. It's absolute nonsense that it's only violence against women that's being condemned.

If you honestly think today's Australia is more sexist than we've ever seen, then you haven't had a look at how it was before. Women were legally paid 2/3rds as much as men - my mother was a teacher in the 70s and tells that story. Similarly, it was shameful to be seen as simply being pregnant in public, let alone breastfeeding, and there was no male analogue for that, no physical state men could be in where they had to hide from public view. There is plenty more, so I'd strongly encourage you to look at the rights that first-wave feminists were fighting for, if you think that it's more sexist now than ever before.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they say "Female Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter". If I learned anything from "Black Lives Matter", it is that this type of response is not acceptable and does a lot to diminish the original message.

Without getting too political, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Black Lives Matters movement is to address differences between the life the average black person is afforded vs. that of a non-minority person (ie. white). There's a strong correlation between black and being poor, and perhaps the solution is not to create a divide by race, but rather by socioeconomic status. A lot of problems we have today,…

I think the issue some people have with the BLMM is that it focuses on one aspect of the violence: police vs black population, while not confronting other sources of violence from within the population. Now, me, I think they are both valid concerns. Violence from the police is a big issue (for black and for any population, but they suffer from it the most, proportionately speaking) and it's a complex issue. As recent studies have shown, depolicing/trepidation by police is likely a factor in the increase in violence in large metro areas studied. That said, while being poor is a factor in violence (we can go to Japan or China (more homogenous groups) and we see more violence among the poor or disenfranchised (Yakuza). But that does not absolve the populations from looking inwardly and addressing inter-group violence.

With regard to violence on women, as depicted here in the story, it's not from other women but by males and they also bear the brunt of the violence (2/3 of the cases). So I think it's fair to address this as a special case of violence needing added attention due to the disproportionality of where the violence comes from and who it impacts.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they say "Female Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter". If I learned anything from "Black Lives Matter", it is that this type of response is not acceptable and does a lot to diminish the original message.

Without getting too political, I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Black Lives Matters movement is to address differences between the life the average black person is afforded vs. that of a non-minority person (ie. white). There's a strong correlation between black and being poor, and perhaps the solution is not to create a divide by race, but rather by socioeconomic status. A lot of problems we have today,…

Do you happen to have (or ever looked at) the statistics for criminality of low-income whites? I'd be curious for that comparison - let's say murder rate (as these things are less likely to be covered up) across bottom 10% of income by race.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#18
post #7

Every day most of the crimes committed are against women from the Port Moresby slum areas. Ah, systemic poverty rears its ugly head again. This is, no doubt, related in part to the fact that 97% of the land is owned as tribal land, which seriously hampers modern economic development: The PNG legislature has enacted laws in which a type of tenure called "customary land title" is recognised, meaning that the traditiona…

Hernando De Soto addresses this issue in specific in his book "Mystery of Capital". Very good book to read about the issue of property rights and economic growth.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying that violence can happen to anyone. In Australia, we have a very sexist attitude toward violence. The media (and our own minister for sexism) only ever talk about male perpetrators and female victims. This article mentions twice that the majority of victims are women(about 2/3), but it purposely ignores violence against men. My wife said to me the other day, "today's society is more sexist than w…

As a fellow Australian, you're misrepresenting the issue. Yes, there is currently a government program to try and reduce domestic violence against women. Yes, domestic violence happens in the other direction, and in gay couples as well, but the preponderance of the damage done is received by women. It's a social problem, and the government's job is to try to help social problems. There's also social movements around…

He's not misrepresenting the DV policy when Turnbull makes comments like, quote: "domestic violence - which is just violence against women". 40% of DV homicide victims in Australia are male and 20% are children (52% of those kids killed by women). That's from Australian Institute of Criminology (2015) on 10 years of official National Homicide Monitoring Program data. Women aren't even the majority of DV homicide victims in Australia - and homicides are at the extreme end of gendered violence - let alone DV being exclusively against women. Yet DV funding & research in Australia is exclusively for women. ANROWS, WLS, White Ribbon, OurWatch, DV NSW & Vic (which are really Women's refuge, just renamed), etc etc. all have officially gender discriminatory chartered mandates and act accordingly. Funding isn't put towards "reducing DV" and assigned proportionately to injury or anything. It's assigned for "reducing DV against women", ONLY (or maybe 'women and their children', as if fathers simply don't exist). In NSW for instance, the DV portfolio isn't part of Health or Justice, but is officially owned by "Women NSW" (a genuine matriarchy). Now feminism is all well and good when in cases where it truly is about equal rights, fair opportunities, etc. But that's not what's going on here.

DV has become massively politicised, and if you can't recognise that, when a $30M media campaign is announced within 24 hours of a Federal election, then you're not paying attention. The DV agenda in Australia is far more about helping Turnbull look different to Abbott, because LNP was (rightfully) hemorrhaging in female voter polls. Every other party to the Left has just been trying to out-do him on that since.

If you're genuinely interested in reducing harm against women, then I recommend taking into account data like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/.

Australia is not PNG. Our DV problem is not caused by gender pay inequality etc. Neither is that the cause in most advanced economies (look at Scandinavian countries with up to 50% of women reporting DV, which having the highest rates of gender equality in pay, opportunities, etc in the world).

I agree first-wave feminism had a lot to fight for. I agree there's still issues for gender equality in Australia. But we're also completely ignoring other gender inequalities, like that 20% more women are graduating from universities today than men, while the overwhelming number of gender-based scholarships here still exclusively support women.

Australia has a long way to go before it starts truly understanding what being anti gender discrimination actually means. "The standard you want past is the standard you accept", should also imply a single standard. When we talk about violence being cause by a lack of respect in relationships, we should be dealing with that by building mutual respect, not just building more gender divides. There's no discussion at all of the impact of psychological abuse in DV relationships against men, despite there being more male suicides every week than all the women killed in DV here each year. Nor is there of plenty of other issues related to DV.

I'm aware this is particularly sensitive topic in IT, because I know discrimination against women still exists in a lot of companies. I've witnessed it more in private companies than public ones, but can attest that it varies WIDELY between companies. There's times when I've even sought to hire women over men, for the sole reason that some environments were severely unbalanced, that it was harming performance. There's also cases though where it goes the other way, including that women are generally paid more than males upon graduation in this industry (maybe the ones who make it through are better, but who knows).

Anyway, I just think the whole discussion needs to be FAR more nuanced than what we've seen across media and government.

Re: Violence Against Women in Papua New Guinea

#20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying that violence can happen to anyone. In Australia, we have a very sexist attitude toward violence. The media (and our own minister for sexism) only ever talk about male perpetrators and female victims. This article mentions twice that the majority of victims are women(about 2/3), but it purposely ignores violence against men. My wife said to me the other day, "today's society is more sexist than w…

As a fellow Australian, you're misrepresenting the issue. Yes, there is currently a government program to try and reduce domestic violence against women. Yes, domestic violence happens in the other direction, and in gay couples as well, but the preponderance of the damage done is received by women. It's a social problem, and the government's job is to try to help social problems. There's also social movements around…

p.s. since you mention gay couples, worth noting that 94% of male partners killed in DV are killed by women. Also that 41% of lesbian couples in Australia report having experienced abuse by same-sex partners, 29% for gay men (AIFS, 2015) and even less for hetero women. Yet, government and the radical feminists dominated DV organisations in Australia still keep pushing the line that only men are violent.
Post reply on HN