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The employees shut inside coffins

bbc.com

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Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#111

Post by madgar »

Swizec wrote: post #95
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unemployment rate for under 25 in places like Spain and Greece is 50%. Why aren't we seeing more suicide there? I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. There's a sort of social acceptance of it, but here, there's no tolerance of it. Maybe there's more resources for depressed people in the West as mental illness is beginning to shed its…

> I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. Are you sure? I'm not so sure. I think we just don't talk about it. There is a lot of suicide in the West. Staggeringly plenty. Look at any statistics and you'll see that in most of the West, suicide is at the very peak of causes of death. 10th leading cause of death in 2013 officially.[1] And that…

I literally just yesterday saw on national television news a report that suicide is the second leading cause of death for teenagers in the US.

Rather than invoking conspiracy theories, consider this much simpler theory: Western media doubles as entertainment and doesn't report much on suicide when they don't have to because it's fucking depressing.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#112

Post by JoeAltmaier »

arielweisberg wrote: post #62
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from troubl…

I think it's not just age, but the wealth and prosperity that can go along with it. It's easier to have a moral code and look down on those with less when your own needs and wants are secure.

My old minister used to say "We can have all the morals we can afford"

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#113

Post by ekianjo »

legodt wrote: post #104
ekianjo wrote: post #4

A lotof the cultural aspects described in this article also apply to Japan almost litterally. Its not just a Korean thing.

Japan's stint as an imperial power in Korea has left a large impact in the overall culture there

I'm not sure it's so much Japan's impact as a colonial power than the general influence of confusianism.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#114

Post by kriro »

ambicapter wrote: post #76
kriro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The getting fired part is a two sided sword though. I have to give notice up to 6 month in advance (I don't know the exact number it's a bit complicated). In theory I can dissolve my contract ("Auflösungsvertrag") on the spot but my employer has to agree to that. It's generally a good idea to have longer periods of job security but for someone who can (in theory) get rehired quickly the laws can get in the way, too.…

This is basically the obvious flipside of having these sort of rules. See also, "I wish my business didn't have to follow as many worker regulations so I could make more money faster".

I my case it's more a philosophical issue. I feel fairly uncomfortable working under those regulations (to the point of contemplating quitting an otherwise very interesting job every now and then) because I have a problem with unconditionally delegating my personal decision making to some elites that "know best what's good for me" without a chance to conditionally opt out. I do understand the general concerns and that some middle ground is needed to fight abuse but personally I favor hefty fines for employers that abusing the system and good whistle blower laws/infrastructure.

I think some of this could be solved with different regulations for different kinds of jobs. More "thinky" jobs probably need a lot less regulation than say manual labor.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#116

Post by Roboprog »

FuNe wrote: post #41
coldcode wrote: post #26

Before looking at the article I thought it was a new office layout. No more cube farms, no more open layout, now we put people into little work coffins.

Not far from truth. Not far at all for many of us. PS: Some good ole Pink Floyd music would suit this as well.

So you run and you run, to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking. Shorter of breath, and one day closer to death!

Something like that? If I remember correctly, the whole Dark Side of the Moon album is one big birth to death existentialism essay...

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#117

Post by drzaiusapelord »

Swizec wrote: post #95
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unemployment rate for under 25 in places like Spain and Greece is 50%. Why aren't we seeing more suicide there? I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. There's a sort of social acceptance of it, but here, there's no tolerance of it. Maybe there's more resources for depressed people in the West as mental illness is beginning to shed its…

> I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. Are you sure? I'm not so sure. I think we just don't talk about it. There is a lot of suicide in the West. Staggeringly plenty. Look at any statistics and you'll see that in most of the West, suicide is at the very peak of causes of death. 10th leading cause of death in 2013 officially.[1] And that…

This is a bullshit argument if I've ever seen one. Published suicide rates are accepted as non-controversial. Playing up "but but the US is worse because $conspiracy_theory" is completely asinine, although it gets up upvotes at places like HN and reddit who share a strong anti-US sentiment.

Yes Dorothy, there are places with worse suicide rates than others. Stop pretending suicide data is wrong because of your pet politics.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#118

Post by st3v3r »

tonyle wrote: post #8

At first I thought it was some employer gone crazy. Halfway down, I realize it's just like any other big company tactics. Some upper management suggest all employees practice positive thinking, offering a course on how do deal with stress, forced laughter, etc. Then I wondered how common this practice was for a company to offer this to their employees in the same way a company would offer free massages or therapy. Se…

You know what's really funny/sad? This bullshit usually comes from the very people who are in a position to make an actual difference. They are the ones who could say, "Come in at 9 and leave at 5:30. Do not work from home. Disconnect, and spend time with family." Yet, they don't, because they really do not care about this problem.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#119

Post by st3v3r »

kriro wrote: post #22
jagermo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Healthcare, this wikipedia entry sums it up pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany Regarding the worker rights: Not only do you get a decent amount of holidays (around 30 in most companies, with additional free days for parents), but you can also take up to 14 months leave after childbirth (both father and mother, but combined not 14 months each and one person has to take at least…

The getting fired part is a two sided sword though. I have to give notice up to 6 month in advance (I don't know the exact number it's a bit complicated). In theory I can dissolve my contract ("Auflösungsvertrag") on the spot but my employer has to agree to that. It's generally a good idea to have longer periods of job security but for someone who can (in theory) get rehired quickly the laws can get in the way, too.…

"I get that it's meant to fight abuse but I'd prefer to have an easy way to waive these rights."

An easy way to waive those rights would mean that effectively no one would have those rights. Quite frankly, it is better to err more on the side of caution in these things. Work will still be there tomorrow.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#120

Post by st3v3r »

mahyarm wrote: post #101
jagermo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Healthcare, this wikipedia entry sums it up pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany Regarding the worker rights: Not only do you get a decent amount of holidays (around 30 in most companies, with additional free days for parents), but you can also take up to 14 months leave after childbirth (both father and mother, but combined not 14 months each and one person has to take at least…

I've heard in practice it's near impossible to fire badly performing employees in Germany as a result, even if you're a small company. Or firing a bad employee becomes very expensive which is even worse for small companies. It's probably hindered a bunch of people from starting companies in the region and makes getting a job much harder because employers have to be extra careful.

"It's probably hindered a bunch of people from starting companies in the region"

I very much doubt it. If you were really wanting to start a company, you're not thinking, "I'd do this totally awesome thing! If only it wasn't so hard to fire people!"

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