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The employees shut inside coffins

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Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#91
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misread this from beginning. As someone from eastern asian background, this feels not like some shady play that employer forces people into, rather I think it is close to a what is a catharsis or some sort of confession in western countries. The belief system of Sinosphere is built on ancestor worship. Every year, family gather together and goes to ancestor's tomb, do some cleaning and present offering to…

Might be, but it's a personal experience in that case, not one that should be forced upon employees by their employers. Keep work and spiritual life separated, if at all possible.

Agreed, should offer like program for employees to participate. But I want to say this is different than those forced laughters or exercises the article tries to put them together, the latter, especially the laughing part feels pretty creepy to me, much more than this one.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 'catharsis' as a Western idea isn't actually that helpful in practice. For example, taking out your anger and feeling 'cathartic' is known to make your emotional problems worse, not better, because you've given it a physical outlet that affects everyone around you. This is totally a cult-worshipping style setup where the name of the game isn't employee health but ever increasing amounts of company loyalty. Notic…

> Finally, don't bring "eastern asian background" into this. You should be able to argue for or against something without using your background to appeal to idiots and racists. This x 10. There is being open-minded and there is letting your brains fall out. You can be culturally sensitive, but that should stop when you see victims being stamped upon by a large firm boot, slowly and quietly into the dirt.

Who gets to say if not the people themselves?

Assuming you know better than the people might be the boot stamping you don't see.

(I'm not part of the culture and have no opinion of it. I just disagree that being east asian is irrelevant to something happening involving east asian cultures and religious practices.)

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#93

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

Where would a good source for unemployment data come from? My quick google search show Korea at 3.7% Unemployment. Is that just totally wrong? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/unemployment-rat...

I believe joonhocho was speaking more about youth unemployment than overall unemployment. From the same web site, that rate appears to bounce around in the double digits:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/youth-unemployme...

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from troubl…

Shit, I'm stuck at 3. This is bad.

Not as bad as being stuck at #1, which can be rephrased as "don't get caught." Far too many adults are still there.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#95

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

The unemployment rate for under 25 in places like Spain and Greece is 50%. Why aren't we seeing more suicide there? I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. There's a sort of social acceptance of it, but here, there's no tolerance of it. Maybe there's more resources for depressed people in the West as mental illness is beginning to shed its…

> I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason.

Are you sure? I'm not so sure. I think we just don't talk about it. There is a lot of suicide in the West. Staggeringly plenty.

Look at any statistics and you'll see that in most of the West, suicide is at the very peak of causes of death. 10th leading cause of death in 2013 officially.[1] And that doesn't count all those "Swerved left into oncoming traffic for no obvious reason" cases.

And pay attention to the news. Every "found dead in their apartment" news report for a famous person is a suicide. There's a lot of those.

But the West has a very strong ethic of not reporting suicide for fear of suicide epidemics. That's why celebrity suicides are never reported as suicides and why suicides in general rarely make it into the news.[2]

In short, suicide is a very real problem in the West too.

[1] http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/suicide-datasheet-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide#Journalism_cod...

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#96

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

The unemployment rate for under 25 in places like Spain and Greece is 50%. Why aren't we seeing more suicide there? I think there's something specific about suicide in the East that we just don't have in the West for whatever reason. There's a sort of social acceptance of it, but here, there's no tolerance of it. Maybe there's more resources for depressed people in the West as mental illness is beginning to shed its…

Students in Korea study until midnight or later since middle school. I've done that before I moved to US. Most of my friends did it. You do that for six years until you are eligible to take the nationwide exam that is held once a year. Similar to SAT, but with many more subjects and more depth. If you are sick or feeling nervous on that day, then good luck. Take it again next year or a year after. It's very common that you end up taking the exam two or more times because you are not satisfied with your score, which means you have to study on your own after high school graduation for another year or more. If you are a boy, you have to serve in a military for roughly two years. Most of students go to army during their college years, so they usually have 6 or more years of college. When you are near graduation, start looking for jobs. Not so easy. Unlike in the US, as a new grad, you can apply for jobs once a year for big companies like Samsung. It's a yearly thing just like the college entrance exam. And, you have to take an exam and pass to even submit your resume. Oh, popular companies share the same date for their exams, so you can only apply for one. Make a choice before you apply. It's to lower the competition (or so that you cannot have a competing offer to drive up your salary).

On your resume, you have to put things like: - your picture: they grade how you look. some people do plastic surgery for this. - your age: you have to be fresh out of college. over 30? no chance. - your family info (not sure if still required): what does your father do? how much does he make? where do you live? is it a rent or owned? - list goes on.

Now if you are really lucky and you get into those big companies, then they will pay you $40k-$50k a year which is very high compared to small companies where $20-$30k is average. But, now you have no life. There is no such thing as work life balance. There's no equity compensation in Korea. You get only the salary and bonus. Cost of living and housing price is very high (avg $400-500k in Seoul). You need to slave away the next 30 years to get out of debt. Then, you must retire at age 60. (retirement age is set in stone and you basically get fired). Now do you really want to give birth to your children who will probably end up living the same life as yours? I think this somewhat explains the extremely low birth rate and very high suicidal rate.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#97

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

Where would a good source for unemployment data come from? My quick google search show Korea at 3.7% Unemployment. Is that just totally wrong? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/unemployment-rat...

those are extremely biased unemployment rate. It's been known that unemployment rate conducted by government is totally a bullshit with too many restrictions to be categorized as "unemployed".

There are many articles (written in Korean) that list those restrictions, for example: http://slownews.kr/19261

For young people, more realistic unemployment rate is 34.2% or 1.8million according to this article: http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/bulletin/2016/06/13/0200000000AK...

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#99

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

Well, I hope more of them can move to the USA or someplace that has better opportunities. I'm not really saying that is a fix for SK's woes, but it may be a better outcome for the individual.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#100
post #99

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while averag…

Well, I hope more of them can move to the USA or someplace that has better opportunities. I'm not really saying that is a fix for SK's woes, but it may be a better outcome for the individual.

Young people are already trying hard to move out. It's not that easy if you don't have money.
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