Live data from Hacker News

BSD vs. Linux (2005)

over-yonder.net

231–240 of 371 posts

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#231
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only freedom you give up by using the GPL is the freedom to screw your users over by denying them access to the source code. All you are demanded is to let others enjoy the freedom you enjoy. That, surely, isn't too much to ask.

Meh, hardware vendors routinely ignore GPL, and for the money it takes to sue them in court you could in most cases reverse engineer their drivers and write them for scratch.

Yeah, NVIDIA is an "example" of that.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#232
post #92
post #86

> I like FreeBSD, and I use it as a server OS and on a NAS box but you only need look at https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics to understand that if the "Linux Desktop" is a joke compared to MacOS and Windows then the "FreeBSD Desktop" is even more so. I've never heard anything good about the "MacOS desktop" and I'm pretty sure that the "windows desktop" is far behind the "linux desktop"(plugins, performance, menus etc.)…

I've never heard the opposite. I've switched to OsX 4 years ago after being completely unhappy and irritated with Windows for over 12 years. Now after months of using Ubuntu (unity, xfce) and Mint (Cinnamon) I'm convinced that OsX is best for average (and power) desktop user by a huge margin. Although I would be much more happy with something Open Source.

> Now after months of using Ubuntu (unity, xfce) and Mint (Cinnamon) I'm convinced that OsX is best for average (and power) desktop user by a huge margin.

I recently set up Ubuntu and Mint computers for some folks, and can report that Mint is not bad, but Ubuntu is dreck (seriously, the change-user-password dialogue hangs: do Ubuntu users never change their passwords‽).

I've been running Debian with stumpwm for years now, and am convinced that this is the way of the future: a tiling window manager, extensible in a real language, capable of performing literally any task I ask of it. Most of the time, my main window is full-screen — that's odd to someone used to a classic desktop interface (as I used to be), but it's actually very much like a modern tablet or phone.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#233
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me - what's the problem with the linux desktops?

Back in 2011, security researcher, Joanna Rutkowska wrote a very enlightening article on the inherent security deficiencies of the X server architecture which allows allows any windowed application to control any other one: http://blog.invisiblethings.org/2011/04/23/linux-security-ci...

Back in the 90's, the high-assurance community fleshed out the issues and solved many of them on top of strong endpoints. Here's an example:

https://www.acsac.org/2006/papers/epstein-paper.pdf

One from 2005 that I sent Joanna in gripe about Qubes not having a trusted path:

https://www.acsac.org/2005/papers/54.pdf

Good to see she added a better graphics system at some point. I suggest looking at prior work, though, as it's by security engineers with knowledge of adding it to every aspect of lifecycle and intent to minimize TCB. For example, GenodeOS is using Nitpicker + a microkernel. The abandoned EROS OS, whose site is still up, combined a different windowing system with a capability kernel and new networking stack. All to minimize risk in system in fine-grained way.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#234
I use FreeBSD on the Desktop. It took me a bit to set up my system, so I keep lots of backups. I've been exploring the idea of building an image that contains all the stuff I use.

I find that FreeBSD is generally a lot simpler and more discoverable than Gnu + Linux. If you want a bare-bones UNIX experience free from SystemD and Pulse Audio, I'd recommend giving FreeBSD a try. The FreeBSD handbook is very nicely written, and at the very least using FreeBSD is an educational experience.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#235
post #99
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard the opposite. I've switched to OsX 4 years ago after being completely unhappy and irritated with Windows for over 12 years. Now after months of using Ubuntu (unity, xfce) and Mint (Cinnamon) I'm convinced that OsX is best for average (and power) desktop user by a huge margin. Although I would be much more happy with something Open Source.

I used Linux on the desktop from 2001-2007 or so. Switched to OS X until then. It's no contest: OS X is smoother, more consistent, and lower maintenance. Linux desktops seem to have peaked with GNOME 2.x. I'm not even sure what's going on with Unity.

I agree that GNOME and Unity have jumped the shark — I think that I started to notice when GNOME got rid of xscreensaver and replaced it with a screen-blanker, with an unfulfilled promise of adding screensavers back someday, c.f. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-March/...).

Meanwhile everything went down the path of compositing and otherwise burning way too much CPU to do not a whole lot extra.

I switched over to a tiling WM years ago, and have been extremely happy since. It does exactly what I want; I can connect to a running instance with my editor and reconfigure it, as well rewrite it while it's running. It's pretty great.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#236
post #12

I know Linux (Debian) quite well and would like an excuse to try learning FreeBSD, but I just can't find any serious use-cases where FreeBSD would be of any advantage. I run a small site on a VPS, so: 1. I don't have GBs of free memory for ZFS 2. I don't have GB of RAM, CPU and HD space to build everything from ports, and most importantly, no need. Except for an Application Firewall for nginx, what does ports have ov…

> 1. I don't have GBs of free memory for ZFS Others have already addressed the memory hog myth, so I'll just say that you aren't required to run ZFS - UFS still works just fine. I just sshed into my freebsd AWS instance (UFS) to see 116d uptime with 130MB ram in use and the remaining 110MB being free. I've made no effort to optimize resource usage on the instance, but if I wanted to I could pretty easily cut that by…

Which FreeBSD desktop do you use? I'm collecting recommendations before I try using one.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the GPL doing its job. It also makes it really hard to earn a living with actual software (not services) that depends on GPL.

All of the software I have written for money is free software. In some fields it is hard to not do that: Wordpress plugins, for example, are GPL licensed by default. Can you elaborate what problems you have run into?

How would you solve the following use-case: You want users to be able to try your software for non commercial use, but you want them to pay for commercial. I don't see how GPL licenses can do that for you. In fact, I don't know any common OSS license that has non-commercial limitations with the option of purchasing a commercial license.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the software I have written for money is free software. In some fields it is hard to not do that: Wordpress plugins, for example, are GPL licensed by default. Can you elaborate what problems you have run into?

How would you solve the following use-case: You want users to be able to try your software for non commercial use, but you want them to pay for commercial. I don't see how GPL licenses can do that for you. In fact, I don't know any common OSS license that has non-commercial limitations with the option of purchasing a commercial license.

Creative Commons works that way. So its possible.

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the GPL doing its job. It also makes it really hard to earn a living with actual software (not services) that depends on GPL.

Buy commercial licenses from authors of GPL code, so they will earn something too.

I can see how that works for code that has zero compile-time dependencies on other copyleft software. I.e. a very limited usecase. Or am I getting something wrong?

Re: BSD vs. Linux (2005)

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the software I have written for money is free software. In some fields it is hard to not do that: Wordpress plugins, for example, are GPL licensed by default. Can you elaborate what problems you have run into?

How would you solve the following use-case: You want users to be able to try your software for non commercial use, but you want them to pay for commercial. I don't see how GPL licenses can do that for you. In fact, I don't know any common OSS license that has non-commercial limitations with the option of purchasing a commercial license.

You can always dual-license the software. The GPL version of your software can always be a basic version, customers could pay for features they want to have.
Post reply on HN