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No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

theguardian.com

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Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#141

Post by nommm-nommm »

adwn wrote: post #120
rayiner wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would intorture myself by teaching my toddler to expect perfect cookies?

> Why on earth would intorture myself by teaching my toddler to expect perfect cookies? You're not doing it intentionally or consciously. Children form habits from imitation – "Do as I say, not as I do" doesn't really work for them.

They also are fantastic at picking up social cues from their environment, especially as toddlers. That includes media as well as strangers and family. These cues can be really subtle.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#142

Post by gwilkes »

sardonicbryan wrote: post #100
smokeyj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the value school has When you say value, are you talking about the economic type? Because Susie here is probably better off focusing on her music career than learning long division. I don't see how you can analyze value without quantifying cost and benefit. Even if a better method existed you'd have no way of knowing - especially without more experiments and bigger data sets.

I would agree if she didn't want to learn calculus or linear algebra, but I think long division is a pretty fundamental skill in today's world. How much is my monthly car payment going to be if I take this loan? What is my share of the rent in this house? What are the consequences of running up a credit card balance?

No, sorry it's not a fundamental skill in the least. It's a method for dividing on paper. In 37 years I've never used it outside of school as I have calculator in my pocket as does everyone else (smartphone obviously). Furthermore, "In the United States, long division has been especially targeted for de-emphasis, or even elimination from the school curriculum..." according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_division

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#143

Post by ende »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #126
specialist wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link, thanks for your efforts. I'll definitely read up on sudval.org. "They are fully democratic and focus on producing empowered self directed citizens..." Word. I've run democratic teams. The empowerment is real. I can't explain it; it feels like magic. Those experiences have transmuted me into a full throated advocate for democracy. Democracy, in its multitude of forms, is very much a technology. Ju…

> I wonder why learning can't be more like that? Money. There isn't enough of it. America would rather spend it on other "more important" things.

Funding is not the silver bullet to a better education system that many would like it to be. Misguided reliance on systemstic top-down reform, conflicting interests of education providers and their agents, and the immovable inertia of traditional institutions are far greater enemies to the unrealized potential of new educational paradigms. Among the multiple dimensions of human experience that technology is currently disrupting and reinventing, education should be at the forefront. Instead it is held hostage by the special interests of the current education system, which are reinforced by their entrenchment within the state. Much must change before a new system can be realized.

The problem is not that we aren't buying enough education; it's that we're being sold a counterfeit.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#144

Post by ef4 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #126
specialist wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link, thanks for your efforts. I'll definitely read up on sudval.org. "They are fully democratic and focus on producing empowered self directed citizens..." Word. I've run democratic teams. The empowerment is real. I can't explain it; it feels like magic. Those experiences have transmuted me into a full throated advocate for democracy. Democracy, in its multitude of forms, is very much a technology. Ju…

> I wonder why learning can't be more like that? Money. There isn't enough of it. America would rather spend it on other "more important" things.

That's simply not true. Per student spending in the US is among the highest in the world.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

We just blow it on administration-heavy bureaucracies and demonstrably failed methods.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#145

Post by cup »

mindcrime wrote: post #135
pekk wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those experiences have transmuted me into a full throated advocate for democracy. And if a majority of wolves vote for a sheep dinner?

A well armed sheep contests the outcome...

So vote my way or civil war?

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#146

Post by ef4 »

2suave wrote: post #89

The title should read "No grades, no timetable, and no degree". As much as I like the idea behind it it's simply not a feasible concept in today's society and it's competitive environment. In fact, I'd even wager that the pupils of that school will be ridiculed by their fellow peers for attending such a school. Not to mention that admission boards of prestigious universities would never give them the time of the day.…

I'm sure Sergei Brin, Larry Page, Jeff Bezos, and Jimmy Wales would be interested in hearing how their Montessori educations prevented them from competing in today's society.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#147

Post by superobserver »

ada1981 wrote: post #49

Sudbury Valley Schools are the gold standard as far as I can tell from my research. (I spent a number of years as an education/students rights activist; built and ran the country's most famous education blog back in 2009; and have otherwise been doing advocacy work for a couple decades) They are fully democratic and focus on producing empowered self directed citizens who understand how to share limited resources and…

This is really cool. It reminds me of what happened to me when I turned 15 and my family was first able to afford a computer and an internet connection. I basically started teaching myself all kinds of stuff (e.g., physics, mathematics, philosophy, etc.). Self-directed learning can take you really far, but it isn't right for everyone: mostly individuals who can truly direct themselves and have the kinds of interests that are condusive to broad understanding and knowledge.

The problem I had with the educational system in my time (about 20 years ago) is computer knowledge wasn't taken seriously, so I missed out on having some guidance to push me towards my ultimate interest - electronics, computers, programming, things in tech. Of course, I still like knowing about a lot of other things, but school really doesn't grab your interests. Ideally, it should be setup so students can capitalize on areas of interest.

On second thought, if computer and tech knowledge had been made available to me early on, I probably wouldn't have had the life course in the educational system that I did. Depressing to think about.

Best of luck and I hope it is legitimately successful for the students.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#148

Post by FeepingCreature »

rimantas wrote: post #103
FeepingCreature wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'd like to see is a completely opt-in curriculum with introductory classes and transparent requirements. Simultaneous dense "civil education" class focusing on the specific applications of fields to everyday life. Teachers would only have interested students by definition, so they could offer more in-depth classes. I wish somebody would try it. Nobody needs to know sines and cosines, and somebody who doesn't ca…

I am pretty sure that those who become familiar with sines and cosines will be better at understanding percentages and calculcating interests. Alas, too many underestimate the importance of broad knowledge base, patterns and building blocks.

I don't see your proposed mechanism of action.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#149

Post by specialist »

pekk wrote: post #128
specialist wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link, thanks for your efforts. I'll definitely read up on sudval.org. "They are fully democratic and focus on producing empowered self directed citizens..." Word. I've run democratic teams. The empowerment is real. I can't explain it; it feels like magic. Those experiences have transmuted me into a full throated advocate for democracy. Democracy, in its multitude of forms, is very much a technology. Ju…

> Those experiences have transmuted me into a full throated advocate for democracy. And if a majority of wolves vote for a sheep dinner?

Everyone's grumpy about our (USA) elections, which use a terrible voting system (winner takes all), and then cynically conclude that all democracy is bad news. Because people are stupid. And can't be trusted to do the right thing. Because reasons.

How do you currently choose new hires? Decide to ship (go/no go)? Probably something like Roman Evaluation.

How do you triage defects or choose features? Probably something like Approval Voting.

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