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Rats free each other from cages (2011)

nature.com

31–40 of 173 posts

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#31
post #18

This reminds me of the movie Secret of Nimh.

My first thought was Pinky and the Brain. And somebody else just posted the necessary Douglas Adams quote. Come to think of it, our culture seems to dwell on the fear that our lab rats are smarter than we are...

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#32
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The researchers found that rats rarely opened empty cages, or cages containing a toy rat.

(Maybe the real rats smelled like food, were a sign of food, etc.)

Maybe, but in that case you'd expect more male rats to be cage openers than females.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#33
post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

You're not the only one

I think that all this time, human beings have been watched by creatures whose perceptions and understanding have been so far in advance of anything we have been able to accept, because of our vanity, that we would be appalled if we were able to know, would be humiliated. We have been living with them as blundering, blind, callous, cruel murderers and torturers, and they have watched and known us. And this is the reason we refuse to acknowledge the intelligence of the creatures that surround us: the shock to our amour propre would be too much, the judgement we would have to make on ourselves too horrible: it is exactly the same process that can make someone go on and on committing a crime, or a cruelty, knowing it: the stopping and having to see what has been done would be too painful, one cannot face it. -- Doris Lessing

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#34
post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

...and then we'll all take a look at the animal kingdom and see that Chimps and Dolphins and all sorts of species treat each other - and other species - with innate brutality, and realize this planet is simply one giant cage match.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#35

“In fact there was only one species on the planet more intelligent than dolphins, and they spent a lot of their time in behavioral research laboratories running around inside wheels and conduction frighteningly elegant and subtle experiments on man. The fact that once again man completely misinterpreted this relationship was entirely according to these creatures’ plans.” RIP Douglas Adams.

Side note: The Black Plague

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#37
post #33
post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

You're not the only one I think that all this time, human beings have been watched by creatures whose perceptions and understanding have been so far in advance of anything we have been able to accept, because of our vanity, that we would be appalled if we were able to know, would be humiliated. We have been living with them as blundering, blind, callous, cruel murderers and torturers, and they have watched and known…

hah, as if the abuse would stop with that acknowledgement.

its beyond unlikely that we, as the human race, become vegetarian. as such, we'll never stop abusing other animals beside us. on that note: i'm not a vegetarian either, nor am i planning to become one.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#38
post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

If an animal can't communicate complex thought, he is just an animal. No matter how "smart" or "emotionally developed" they appear.

Until then it's just instinct.

And if the day ever arrives, it can just be seen as an evolutionary step for the species, and not as proof that they where intelligent all along.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#39
post #37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not the only one I think that all this time, human beings have been watched by creatures whose perceptions and understanding have been so far in advance of anything we have been able to accept, because of our vanity, that we would be appalled if we were able to know, would be humiliated. We have been living with them as blundering, blind, callous, cruel murderers and torturers, and they have watched and known…

hah, as if the abuse would stop with that acknowledgement. its beyond unlikely that we, as the human race, become vegetarian. as such, we'll never stop abusing other animals beside us. on that note: i'm not a vegetarian either, nor am i planning to become one.

I'm curious, could you kill an animal and cut it up? Do you realize you pay people to do this every time you buy meat? Are you cool with that?

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they used 30 rats in total?Any numbers on how statistically well-powered this was?

30 rats are plenty if they selected them properly - different gene pools, different breeders etc...

You wouldn't necessarily care about genetic diversity for this sort of experiment. This experiment isn't trying to say "all animals" or "all rat species" exhibit this behavior; the interesting thing is that any animal does.
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