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Rats free each other from cages (2011)

nature.com

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Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#21

Post by semi-extrinsic »

throwitawayday wrote: post #17
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #3

Actual paper: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6061/1427 There is a correction issued for this paper, but the correction is paywalled so I can't tell whether it's substantive or a nitpick. Also, please put a (2011) in the title.

The correction: “Empathy and pro-social behavior in rats” by I. B.-A. Bartal et al. (9 December 2011, p. 1427). On p. 1428, the last full paragraph of column 1 was incorrect. The paragraph should be replaced by this corrected text: “All female rats (6/6) and most male rats (17/24) in the trapped condition became door-openers. Female rats in the trapped condition opened the restrainer door at a shorter latency than ma…

So they used 30 rats in total?Any numbers on how statistically well-powered this was?

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#22

Post by FeepingCreature »

smoyer wrote: post #7

If you were observing humans but couldn't interview them, could you say they were acting with empathy? There are all sorts of "acts" that appear to be empathy from the outside but end up being in both parties best interest. Even acts of heroism and selflessness end up helping to hold together our society but it's often hard to feel what the other is feeling. Even when I consciously try, I suspect my attempts at empat…

Why do you think you feel empathy to begin with? It feels good because it helps on net. Your brain is a product of evolution; when something feels nice, there's usually a pragmatic reason for it.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#23

Post by back_beyond »

auganov wrote: post #12

Sort of off-topic but: What companies (or researchers?) [if any] are working on animal-related technologies? I.e. animal eeg, [non-decorative] animal wear, apps for animals etc. It deeply fascinates me but seems like it's somewhat unexplored in general. I only remember some company working on VR for animals.

What are the benefits of developing such technology?

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#24

Post by brunorsini »

“In fact there was only one species on the planet more intelligent than dolphins, and they spent a lot of their time in behavioral research laboratories running around inside wheels and conduction frighteningly elegant and subtle experiments on man. The fact that once again man completely misinterpreted this relationship was entirely according to these creatures’ plans.”

RIP Douglas Adams.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#25

Post by dogma1138 »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #21
throwitawayday wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correction: “Empathy and pro-social behavior in rats” by I. B.-A. Bartal et al. (9 December 2011, p. 1427). On p. 1428, the last full paragraph of column 1 was incorrect. The paragraph should be replaced by this corrected text: “All female rats (6/6) and most male rats (17/24) in the trapped condition became door-openers. Female rats in the trapped condition opened the restrainer door at a shorter latency than ma…

So they used 30 rats in total?Any numbers on how statistically well-powered this was?

30 rats are plenty if they selected them properly - different gene pools, different breeders etc...

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#26

Post by hiou »

smoyer wrote: post #7

If you were observing humans but couldn't interview them, could you say they were acting with empathy? There are all sorts of "acts" that appear to be empathy from the outside but end up being in both parties best interest. Even acts of heroism and selflessness end up helping to hold together our society but it's often hard to feel what the other is feeling. Even when I consciously try, I suspect my attempts at empat…

Could I enquire why you find it difficult to believe that empathy can be a common driver of behavior?

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#27

Post by agumonkey »

grecy wrote: post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

I have a weird metaphor. I grew up feeding on the 8bit period. A few years before I lost love for games. They grade objectively higher in most dimensions yet something isn't better. Resolutions aren't a defining variable. Old games limited in colors, dimensions, length, space etc etc still have the most important genes (gameplay?). This is how I feel about humans vs animals. They have the fundamental layers (fear, bond, game, space), we may have (I'm not qualified to claim more) a ridiculously larger upper brain that we use to reflect on this traits (we question emotions, etc), but in the end we don't have lots more than them.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#28

Post by ekianjo »

grecy wrote: post #9

I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

> I feel certain that in the near future we will discover animals are a lot smarter and more emotionally developed than we currently realize, and future generations will look back on our treatment of them with disgust.

Replace animals by "slaves" or whatever human race we considered inferior in the past and you could write the same thing about a couple of hundred years ago.

But the idea that humans are at the acme of evolution is going to be harder to kill.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#29

Post by internaut »

auganov wrote: post #12

Sort of off-topic but: What companies (or researchers?) [if any] are working on animal-related technologies? I.e. animal eeg, [non-decorative] animal wear, apps for animals etc. It deeply fascinates me but seems like it's somewhat unexplored in general. I only remember some company working on VR for animals.

You remember Boxxy? From the Great 4chan Troll Wars? One side was trying to make her Queen and ... well, perhaps the less analysis the better.

Boxxy aka Cathy Wayne has been at work for Animalist and does a review of a company called No More Woof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUduoC7J6gA

No More Woof. What a fantastic name for a startup.

If the Internet was only created for one purpose and that purpose was talking pets, then it was all worth it. Technology!

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