My best friend lives in Spain. From what I was told, part of the problem is the fact that employers have too many requests, while not offering much in terms of payment and advantages. A lot of them hope to hire immigrants for cheap; this is quite a paradox given the percentage of Spain's population which is nationalistic.
Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
341–350 of 449 posts
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#342There was a Polish composer, writer and politician Stefan Kisielewski who used to say: "Socialism is a system which bravely fights problems that are not known in any other system". That describes situation of Spain perfectly.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm wondering what is the cognitive dissonance with employers who are unwilling to train workers. I mean, I understand the reasons if you're a an SMB, but large corporations used to train their employees or hold something close to apprenticeship programs. It was far less common for people to change jobs back then, too. Neither employers nor employees feel any real loyalty towards one another, so investing in one an…
> "It was far less common for people to change jobs back then, too. Neither employers nor employees feel any real loyalty towards one another, so investing in one another feels foolish. There's nothing to incentivise someone to stay once he's learnt the skills he needs to get a position elsewhere." Sorry, I still don't understand this attitude. I live in the UK, it's common here to have at least some level of on-the-…
I live in India, and on-the-job training is very common. And to be honest, I still feel a certain loyalty towards the company I interned at. Just because they invested about a month just training me and paying me.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#344> Pimentel’s client asked him for list of candidates trained in “Agile” project management techniques for helping companies boost their productivity by using more I.T. systems. The client was offering as much as 200,000 euros ($220,000) a year -- almost 10 times the average salary in Spain. > But such people are thin on the ground in Spain. It takes at least eight months for an experienced software developer to earn…
> And that's the reason why the executives don't find workforce. Being less-skilled means they don't value the engineering profession up to the required level to compromise and give good salaries.
Came to post this
> (Spanish dev here --working abroad obviously--.)
Same here ;)
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they are the ones that everyone knows, Man, how things change. I remember times when most developers would derisively laugh off Python's indentation. Back in 2006, Python jobs were so few and far between, you'd struggle to get paid to work with it. 10 years later, "everybody" works with it, so apparently you struggle to get paid a decent amount. Why can't I ever find a niche I like and paying well? :(
Do you like functional programming? That's a sector that's poppin.
I've actually found it pretty hard to find regular work focused on doing FP. My last job was Erlang when I started, but pivoted to Go because of a lack of Erlang developers. My last two jobs before that were mixes of C and Haskell, but only because I was given the lattitude to select haskell. This time around when I was interviewing I was trying to find something that would let me focus on FP, but the best I could find were jobs that ostensibly wanted to hire Clojure and Scala devs, but really 90% of the job would be maintaining a bunch of legacy enterprise architecturey Java with just enough FP to try to attract people into the positions.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'd stay far away from anyone who thinks you need 8 months to grasp the concepts of Agile. Sounds like @horse_recruiter is running the talent search. That ridiculous expectation is probably a symptom of some pretty dysfunctional management in general.
For a developer, no. For someone involved in non-technical delivery, I would expect they had experience delivering agile projects. (Of course, agile projects typically call them product owners instead, a subtle distinction.) I've been involved with agile projects since 2006 and I am still learning new ways of delivering software that solves the right problem, developing team cohesion, surfacing risk early, and other…
Product Owner is not the same as Project Manager. Product Owner is similar to Product or Program Manager in software, though the Product Owner role is usually a subset focused on software development and does not include go to market and P&L.
SCRUM Master role is the closest to a Project Manager.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it happens. In any case 500 millions of people have spanish as native language in the world so "mandatory" is a relative term. You will need chinese to work in China, and spanish or portuguese to work in South-America. If you don't speak Catalan and live in Cataluña you just will never finish the middle school. Or if you want to work for the administration you will be ostracised or directly banned for working fo…
Oh please, spare the HN crowd of your anti-Catalan obsessions. Or, on second thought, please continue to educate the community on the anti-Catalan sentiment that is unfortunately so common throughout Spain. > If you don't speak Catalan and live in Cataluña you just will never finish the middle school. Or you will learn Catalan which is kinda the fucking point of education? Boo-hoo, Catalonians want kids to learn Cata…
> Try getting a job in the public administration in Spain without speaking Spanish, in France without speaking French, in Italy without speaking Italian, in the UK without speaking English... see the pattern?
Yes, I see it, and is not the same as you think.
Would be, "Try getting a job in the public administration in Spain without speaking Spanish AND catalan, in France without speaking French AND Patóis, in Italy without speaking Italian AND Lombard, in the UK without speaking English AND Gaelic"... see the pattern? Duplicated effort, same result.
But in Argentina the same guy could use the extra time to learn other things, that maybe could be even useful for their employers.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#348It means the expectation of the demand (companies) are not matching what the market provides.
Having to look for a job in Europa, I dare say most job offers are laughable.
C#, PHP and java are MODERN technologies that no one should be scared of.
Windev is a very good tool.
Mysql and mssql are the only two worthy databases.
Free software is a free as a bier.
AGILE is SOOO complex...it has to be officiated religiously like ITIL or ISO norms.
They want software devs on the market already proefficient in proprietary/tricky technologies, and no one understand why jobless persons with so much time cannot buy these 10K€ tools and use their worthless time in self formation.
And salary expectation are low : a coder MUST not be paid more than any manager. Even the manager responsible for the cleaning team of 500m² office with a headcount of 2.
They just have irrealistic expectations. That's all folks.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are on Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Nginx, Lua & not afraid of new technologies. Our open positions are on https://www.3scale.net/about/jobs/ We're based in Barcelona, but had remote workers in the past and still might be opened to that after some warmup time. On some hiring sites we were publically posting 50k EUR for Senior Backend Developer. Being here for 5 years I can say there is plenty of growth space for good dev…
But the problem I see is that the top people you might want would have no problem finding a similar position in a US company for 2x-3x that salary. So what how do you compete in the global economy with a 50+% salary cut? Do most of your developers only speak Spanish? Or do they have their roots firmly set in Spain (family/friends/relationships)?
Getting a similar position in a US company is not easy. The US visa system is sheer madness, starting with the H1B lottery.
Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently not or the poster would have used that convention.
I think it might have to do with the poster's mother tongue. As a Spanish-speaker I'd tend to say "pagarían 20% menos" (which roughly translates to "they'd pay 20% less". Some idioms are very difficult to get rid off. I sometimes can distinguish Brazilians from Argentines just by the way they write in English.
I grew up in the US and am a native English speaker raised by native English speakers and I sometimes use the same idiom. I suspect the GP is complaining because English is not a strong language for him/her.