Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#131

Post by douche » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

andyjdavis wrote: post #64

deepGem wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. If your finances are sorted out, it's good to take a break from work for 2-3 months and do absolutely nothing. What you once craved, 8 hours of sleep, hanging out with friends, traveling, spending time with family etc, once you experience them for a long enough time, will start hurting and you will start craving for work. I think it's a myth that one can just chill out forever, which is why I also believe that UB…

>I think it's a myth that one can just chill out forever Absolutely. My wife and I spent a few years traveling full-time, mostly SE Asia. I worked remotely while my wife was busy with various projects. In particular, tropical islands are incredibly damaging to your motivation and general happiness. We arrived grossly overestimating how much we would enjoying hanging out on a tropical islands and met a great many peop…

A tropical island with a goodly supply of rum punch, a well-stocked library, and a hammock sounds like paradise to me. Whenever I go on vacation, catching up on my reading is always one of my goals.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#132

Post by p4wnc6 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 3:55 PM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #123

p4wnc6 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, I was required to relocate from a large east coast city back to my family's home in the rural Midwest, where I perform functions to care for a family circumstance and they take up effectively a full-time job's worth of hours every week. It's all I can do to continue exercising and cooking healthy meals. "Working" a full-time side project that yields no short-term income is wholly and entirely physically i…

Ah, I see. I think that still counts as work. If you've been saying "I've been off work" in interviews, that might not work, but it would be just as true to say "I've been working for my family."

Yes, I do say this. Obviously you can't just vaguely say "I've been working" -- they will ask exactly what "work" you have been doing, which is when I explain just the bare minimum details of my family situation necessary for an employer.

Most people interviewing me express a lot of compassion, say it's admirable to see someone sticking to help their family as I have, and then promptly reject me for not currently being employed.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#133

Post by p4wnc6 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #65

p4wnc6 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was living and working on the east coast in a major city for about the past 8 years, and feel that culturally I resonate more with urban lifestyle, tech & university hubs, etc. Sense of humor is important to me ... I'm one of those people who was raised on The Simpsons, despite how cliche it is and how much Sean & Hayes of Hollywood Handbook would mock me for saying so. The family situation has required me to move…

Your education and past experience are very impressive. Your employment gap is less so. There's a lot of passion and pride in your stories, use that energy to sell yourself to employers - tell them you'll make something for them that they'll be proud of. What about giving tech presentations as self-employment? Since you enjoy doing these, you would just need an audience, maybe at a school? Or maybe presenting concept…

As I mentioned in the other comment, given the full-time duties I have to care for my current family situation, there simply is no physical possibility for doing anything that remotely resembles work. Devoting the time necessary to create presentation materials alone would be way, way too prohibitive. Already, even just spend a couple hours on telephone interviews and a couple hours on personal code projects is an extreme time strain for me, not to mention that in this rural area there is no reliable internet connection and I often go for hours, sometimes even days, without ability to connect except by tethering to a 4G device and paying huge data charges.

If I have to pick between spending those few hours actually coding vs. spending them making videos or something, I think it's obvious that actually coding (and reading to stay current) is much more important. That's what I want to do in my next job. Making YouTube videos is likely to be completely ignored by most recruiters, and even when considered it won't be regarded as useful in the way that actual coding skill will be.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#134

Post by viscanti » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #128

chubot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble). For the las…

> I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. Because open source is somehow inherent to a meaningful life?

I think the idea is that there's a potentially meaningful part of someone's life outside of their company if what they work on isn't just contained in their company. I don't read it as the OP suggesting it's a precondition for a meaningful life; it seems to be one potential path.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#135

Post by matt_wulfeck » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

I'm reading "Letters From a Self-made Merchant to his Son"[0] and this particular passage stuck out at me (keep in mind the author/merchant was very rich for his time and ran the business):

> I hear a good deal about men who won’t take vacations, and who kill themselves by overwork, but it’s usually worry or whiskey. It’s not what a man does during working-hours, but after them, that breaks down his health. A fellow and his business should be bosom friends in the office and sworn enemies out of it. A clear mind is one that is swept clean of business at six o’clock every night and isn’t opened up for it again until after the shutters are taken down next morning.

I think this really is something that's lost in our time. I know that 90% of the people reading this comment take their laptops home with them after work.

[0] http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21959/21959-h/21959-h.htm

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#136

Post by knicholes » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

ambicapter wrote: post #124

chipsambos wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.” That is why it's important not anchor your identity in the transient. The world is full of people who do and it invariably hits them hard when things inevitably change: Mothers with empty nest syndrome, ageing people clinging desperately to their youthful goo…

What can you anchor yourself which Isn't transient?

I like to anchor myself on being an honest person.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#137

Post by jakeva » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #125

tajen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recognize I'm in this situation, but I have no idea what one could do to make a life meaningful, outside of good work or raising great kids, hopefully with a loving partner. I have already tried many things: Living in 3 other countries for 4 years in total (but I was missing family and friends support), being self-employed (I do B2B software like P.McKenzie), learning to dance (3 times, but I feel crap at it), musi…

If life is truly boring and you seek "meaning" then your suggestion, "raising great kids", is the path to take. Picking up that first little bundle in your hands sets off neurons that lay latent for decades awaiting the moment and which instantaneously rewire your brain to protect/foster. If you had control before that moment, you certainly don't after. And you'll have more "meaning" than you can handle. Bad news: yo…

Mormon girls tend to want to date only Mormon men, or at least other Christians

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#138

Post by chubot » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #128

chubot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble). For the las…

> I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. Because open source is somehow inherent to a meaningful life?

No, the claim is: for programmers, it's better to work for a company who supports open source than one that doesn't.

As the article mentioned, work is important for life. It gives your mind varied experiences, which keeps it sharp. Open source means the value of your work doesn't evaporate once you leave the company.

Of course, you could try to fill 8 hours a day with something besides programming once your retire. But it's still strictly better to have the OPTION to continue programming, and even better to do it with some of the same code (assuming nontrivial codebases).

If you spend 30 years doing something 40 hours a week, you're going to be a lot better at it than something you only did on weekends. And at least for me, the reward is tied to the accomplishment.

For example, I've been learning how make videos with a DSLR recently. But this is at most a weekend thing. It's not that rewarding in the initial stages since I'm not good at it, and nobody cares about the end result because it's not good enough. With programming that's not the case.

If I were retired, I wouldn't be able to build meaningful work out of shooting video (or at least it would take another 5-10 years to do so). But I would be able to with programming, outside of a job. I could teach programming too, whereas I can't teach video.

But of course it's good to cultivate other hobbies... you could get crippling RSI and not be able to program. But my point is that work is privileged over hobbies. It's a different thing. Dawdling around with no goal is what makes people lose their mental toughness.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#139

Post by mcshicks » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

andyjdavis wrote: post #33

>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.” I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of iden…

I took an early retirement a few years ago, this is good advice about cutting back work, but for many people it's hard to get there employer to agree to fewer hours. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which the way many employers control cost is buy just limiting headcount. Another option, which I took is to take a leave of absence. I took off 4 months, the most I could swing about 5 years before I finally quit. Certainly for 4 months I didn't feel bored at all. For me at least, two years now I'm not bored at all. For people interested in learning new technology, in my opinion there has never been a better time.

Also agree with the need to develop social connections outside of work. That could be friends you share a hobby or activity with, a volunteer group or cause you believe in, or anything else. Another option is finding part time work after you quit. I had a close childhood friend who asked me to help him with a project. We live in different parts of the country and previously we communicated at best once a year or so. Now even when there's not much to do we talk at least once a month.

I also recommend reading up on the subject before you do. This is reading list I went through leading up to my retirement. While much of the financial advice maybe out of date, some of it covers just the psychological aspects.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/rebooks.html

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#140

Post by AJ007 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

chubot wrote: post #34

andyjdavis wrote: post #33

>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.” I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of iden…

I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble). For the las…

Another standpoint is what happens when a company is acquired (or goes under) - projects are often rolled in to something else or vanish entirely. Even from a business owner's perspective you may still have the ability to say - we built X or Y, perhaps long after the original company is forgotten.