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A Tragic Loss

tesla.com

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Re: A Tragic Loss

#71

Post by gambiting »

phire wrote: post #58
vadym909 wrote: post #26

This is just beyond me. How did the radars not see the front portion of the truck, the front wheels, the underbody of the container isn't that high to let the entire car go through?

It's a narrow beam radar (about 200m range) which checks the current lane is clear, it probably assumed the other parts of the truck were some obstacle on the side of the road (or in another lane) I'm not even sure the radar has a height dimension, I suspect they just focused it at bumper height to catch most cars. The car also has a single camera in the front to see the lane markers, and a short range ultrasonic sys…

It was explained elsewhere that the radar does not scan "up" to avoid collision warning for overpasses. Actually I remember reading a reddit thread months ago saying that a Tesla in Autopilot could, theoretically, hit a steel beam that was sticking out onto the road at around the roof height, because the radar wouldn't see it.

And I absolutely agree with your last sentence - these cars need more sensors.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#72

Post by welanes »

tombrossman wrote: post #67
efaref wrote: post #13

It sounds like the trailer didn't have underrun guards, which I think are mandatory in Europe, but presumably not in the US. http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/guards.html I expect those would have helped in this situation, as the car would have impacted the guards (and thus it would be a normal collision), rather than having its top sliced off.

Underrun guards are a good idea but not yet practical for trailers in the US. The reason is that loading dock approaches have far too much variance in ground height, and the empty space under the trailer is essential to have. If guards were in place, they would come into regular contact with the ground and either damage the trailer or the truck would be 'high centered' and stuck, resting on the guards. I suppose the…

I don't know if this excuse holds water. If 28 disparate states with different freight profiles can pull it off, surely the US can too.

It's all about will.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#73

Post by kozak »

madaxe_again wrote: post #51
efaref wrote: post #13

It sounds like the trailer didn't have underrun guards, which I think are mandatory in Europe, but presumably not in the US. http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/guards.html I expect those would have helped in this situation, as the car would have impacted the guards (and thus it would be a normal collision), rather than having its top sliced off.

Correct. The EU requires underrun guards on all vehicles except tipper trucks, which cause a disproportionate number of fatalities still. There was an attempt to introduce legislation in the US in the 90's, I believe, but it was killed.

What's interesting, I didn't know what exactly a tipper truck is, and I did a Google image search for that query. All of the trucks shown to me had highly visible underrun guards on their sides.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#74

Post by rimantas »

tmikaeld wrote: post #17
martin_bech wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I fear now, is fearmongering by people who dont drive Teslas, havent spent time with Autosteer/autopilot and ignore that this was a freak accident, that probably would have killed the driver regardless of using autopilot. This is the future of roadsafety.

That's exactly what i fear as well, that innovation will halt and reverse because of fear of using new technology. Even if it's statistically safer than the alternative.

Mistaking truck for a road sign is not a future I want.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#75

Post by contravariant »

tmikaeld wrote: post #15

According to the numbers, Teslas cars are by far the safest ones you can drive. I don't expect autonomous driving to be perfect until all variables can be accounted for and the largest being humans behind the wheels.

According to the numbers there's a 25% probability it would have taken more than 130 million miles before the first fatality, assuming an average of 1 fatality every 94 million miles.

That's ignoring the fact that Tesla's autopilot might only be used in situations with a relatively low average number of fatalities per million miles.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#76

Post by vincnetas »

gambiting wrote: post #68
efaref wrote: post #13

It sounds like the trailer didn't have underrun guards, which I think are mandatory in Europe, but presumably not in the US. http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/guards.html I expect those would have helped in this situation, as the car would have impacted the guards (and thus it would be a normal collision), rather than having its top sliced off.

The guards are mostly just thin aluminium panels on steel supports, so if the car impacted them front first, going at highway speed(lets assume 50-60mph?) they would have made no difference whatsoever.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/3qwy28/good_vs_bad_un...

Re: A Tragic Loss

#77

Post by kozak »

Svip wrote: post #53
d8421l01vv4r wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason why people are afraid of flying is because you are locked inside an aluminium container flying 10km above ground. Sitting in a self-driving car is psychologically quite different.

True, but that's those who are simply afraid of flying. It still doesn't necessarily explain those people who would be uncomfortable flying without a pilot, but perfectly fine with one. I also hear people telling me that they would not be comfortable with a passenger on a self-driving bus. Anecdotal evidence, I know. And since they haven't actually experienced one, I still think the jury is out on this one; but it st…

It depends on people's preconceptions. I live in a country where taxi drivers race like in that Taxi movie, and often remove seat belts from passenger seats for macho reasons, so self-driving taxis would be something that would allow me to ride in a taxi without fear.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#78

Post by gambiting »

vincnetas wrote: post #76
gambiting wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guards are mostly just thin aluminium panels on steel supports, so if the car impacted them front first, going at highway speed(lets assume 50-60mph?) they would have made no difference whatsoever.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/3qwy28/good_vs_bad_un...

Wow. Thanks for sharing this.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#79

Post by antaviana »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #70

What strikes me most is that the first paragraph is only dedicated to the benefit of Tesla, trying to downplay the event by comparing it to human drivers. After three more paragraphs to deflect damage from Tesla the last paragraph - like an afterthought - is about the tragedy of the death of a person. Perhaps this is just me. I at least would have wished the first paragraph would have followed the headline of "A trag…

There's a 10% of abandonement for each additional paragraph in the post so you need to put the most important facts first to ensure your message is conveyed. Their priority is to restablish confidence and there is nothing that can be done to bring that person back to life. They are trying to save other people's lives by pushing their idea for a safer driving.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#80

Post by kozak »

mysterypie wrote: post #35

Paraphrasing from the article: Tesla Autopilot: 1 fatality per 130 million miles All US vehicles: 1 fatality per 94 million miles Worldwide vehicles: 1 fatality per 60 million miles If the statistics above are accurate, logically there should be no reason for distress, worry, accusations, or mistrust. Or at least much less so than for ordinary driving. It's like shark attacks: No matter how remote it is, there's goin…

If all the world drove cars whose passive safety was as good as Tesla Model S, number of miles driven per fatality worldwide would be more than 130 million miles, I think. An average car around the globe is quite a junk. I think we should compare the Tesla Autopilot numbers only with non-Autopilot Tesla numbers.
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