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Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

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Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#21

Post by semi-extrinsic »

henrikschroder wrote: post #10
nathanaldensr wrote: post #4

I wonder what the driver was doing when the vehicle crashed. Tesla says that the driver is ultimately responsible for controlling the vehicle but then provides a system that is likely result in the driver not paying attention--sleeping, reading, or otherwise being distracted. How can Tesla and the governments that license drivers resolve this situation?

Any concession means that the driver somehow isn't ultimately responsible, which is a situation noone wants to end up in. It's also ridiculous.

Both Mercedes and Volvo have publicly stated they are taking full responsibility for any accidents which occur during use of their semi-autonomous systems. Tesla needs to step up, or it will hurt their public image.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#22

Post by steve19 »

roadnottaken wrote: post #3

"This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated," states a post on Tesla's corporate website. "Among all vehicles in the U.S., there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles. It is important to emphasize that the NHTSA action is simply a preliminary evaluation to determine whether the system worked accordin…

Are users running Autopilot during hazardous conditions such as heavy rain and snow?

If not, comparing auto pilot deaths with average deaths per mile is disingenuous.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#23

Post by jayjay71 »

henrikschroder wrote: post #10
nathanaldensr wrote: post #4

I wonder what the driver was doing when the vehicle crashed. Tesla says that the driver is ultimately responsible for controlling the vehicle but then provides a system that is likely result in the driver not paying attention--sleeping, reading, or otherwise being distracted. How can Tesla and the governments that license drivers resolve this situation?

Any concession means that the driver somehow isn't ultimately responsible, which is a situation noone wants to end up in. It's also ridiculous.

While I agree there is a huge danger with semi-autonomous systems as drivers become disengaged, Volvo has already publicly announced they will take full legal responsibility for any crashes when their cars are in autonomous mode.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#24

Post by semi-extrinsic »

burnguy123 wrote: post #18
roadnottaken wrote: post #3

"This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated," states a post on Tesla's corporate website. "Among all vehicles in the U.S., there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles. It is important to emphasize that the NHTSA action is simply a preliminary evaluation to determine whether the system worked accordin…

From what I understand, the autopilot can only be used on highways. I would suspect that highway travel is much safer per mile in the first place. Are we comparing highway driving with autopilot to regular mixed city/highway driving?

Also, those averages are over the entire car population, with a median age of around ten years and an average crash safety rating relatively far below that of a Model S.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#26

Post by jholloway7 »

GrinningFool wrote: post #12

My sympathies to the people who built the systems that make Autopilot possible. Even knowing it was statistically bound to happen eventually, this has to weigh heavily from the "damn, I should've thought of this once-in-a-130-m-miles corner case" perspective.

Unlike many other fatal crashes, however, they presumably now have data from the corner case they can use to regression test every future release of the system.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#27

Post by tfinniga »

wldcordeiro wrote: post #5

So if I read it right the trailer merged from a Lane next to the Tesla? So the trucker had the Tesla in a blind spot? The article is vague.

More information here: https://www.levyjournalonline.com/police-beat.html

Relevant section: In a separate crash on May 7 at 3:40 p.m. on U.S. 27 near the BP Station west of Williston, a 45-year-old Ohio man was killed when he drove under the trailer of an 18-wheel semi. The top of Joshua Brown’s 2015 Tesla Model S vehicle was torn off by the force of the collision. The truck driver, Frank Baressi, 62, Tampa was not injured in the crash. The FHP said the tractor-trailer was traveling west on US 27A in the left turn lane toward 140th Court. Brown’s car was headed east in the outside lane of U.S. 27A. When the truck made a left turn onto NE 140th Court in front of the car, the car’s roof struck the underside of the trailer as it passed under the trailer. The car continued to travel east on U.S. 27A until it left the roadway on the south shoulder and struck a fence. The car smashed through two fences and struck a power pole. The car rotated counter-clockwise while sliding to its final resting place about 100 feet south of the highway. Brown died at the scene. Charges are pending.

Here is a google maps view of the accident location: https://goo.gl/maps/SSKyoxhoaxp

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#28

Post by seizethecheese »

burnguy123 wrote: post #18
roadnottaken wrote: post #3

"This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated," states a post on Tesla's corporate website. "Among all vehicles in the U.S., there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles. It is important to emphasize that the NHTSA action is simply a preliminary evaluation to determine whether the system worked accordin…

From what I understand, the autopilot can only be used on highways. I would suspect that highway travel is much safer per mile in the first place. Are we comparing highway driving with autopilot to regular mixed city/highway driving?

Highways are the most dangerous environment. High speed combined with cross traffic. City streets don't have enough speed usually for crashes be lethal.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#29

Post by ibrahima »

I can see why Volvo criticized Tesla for rolling out a system that's not fully autonomous. If drivers are willfully distracted because they think the car will handle any situation, that's a very dangerous place to be in. Though it's not clear what the driver was doing in this situation, so it's possible that this would have been a fatal crash in any other car without autopilot as well.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#30

Post by tdaltonc »

steve19 wrote: post #22
roadnottaken wrote: post #3

"This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated," states a post on Tesla's corporate website. "Among all vehicles in the U.S., there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles. It is important to emphasize that the NHTSA action is simply a preliminary evaluation to determine whether the system worked accordin…

Are users running Autopilot during hazardous conditions such as heavy rain and snow? If not, comparing auto pilot deaths with average deaths per mile is disingenuous.

What would be an ingenuous comparison?
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