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Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

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Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this answer, and I don't recall "suggesting" anything.

Settle down. You seem to be taking some heat in the comments, so I'll recuse myself from this discussion, as I feel we are no longer making progress in an intellectual context.

It would help to "make progress in an intellectual context" if you'd deign to back-up the claim you made, which I now strongly suspect was simply incorrect from the start.

But hey, suit yourself.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Holding back the industry" No! I think we, the software industry, are very irresponsible when it comes to __planned obsolescence__ [1]. Computers from 10 years ago are very capable of doing most things common users want to do nowadays. However, many modern operating systems and applications make these computers unusable. We are forcing users to upgrade software, and because of all the layers of cruft accumulated in…

If the machine is on the Internet, it needs security updates. Let's take that as an inviolate law of nature: If the machine is on the Internet, it needs security updates This isn't a proprietary vs. open source thing, this is a "level of effort" thing. Microsoft right now, if they discover a security bug, has to create a patch for: * Windows XP SP2 (thanks to all those "extended support" buyers; the US Navy has purch…

You really don't understand Linux.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really quite simple: http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/74172/28974

Right but that very answer says: > Newly created processes will use the updated contents, running applications will access the old version. In other words, currently running code is still running the known-buggy version , exactly what I said originally that kicked-off this whole discussion.

No, what you said was: "until you reboot, your Linux box is still running the known-buggy code"

And then later in the same post (just so we're clear about what you said): "But unless you reboot after installing your Linux updates, your computer still has the bugs."

Linux does not require a reboot to update.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest aggravation with Windows is the pattern of unapproved restarts. Sure, there's usually a setting to disable it, and a popup to delay it, but it's not really enough. The setting appears unreliable at best, and the popup is useless when it pops under fullscreen programs. It really only takes one ill-timed restart to damn an OS forever, especially when the restart is chased by lengthy (and impossible to declin…

My biggest issue with Windows Update (specifically) is that it has absolutely no clue what a laptop is. If I'm on a laptop, I'm likely to be out working from site to site, so don't force me to keep my laptop ON so updates can install! Ugh. This is just stupid-headed engineering.

> it has absolutely no clue what a laptop is

It also has no clue what a server is. Servers with Windows 2012 R2, force the users to reboot. How stupid are microsoft, that they assume that people will be ok with rebooting production servers in the middle of the day.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a point, somewhere between 2009ish and 2011ish, when that was really no longer true, except for the distributions that hopped on the PulseAudio boat really early and had audio broken for a few releases. I have no idea what happened after that but it's really screwed up.

What happened in 2011ish that made everything go to hell again?

I wish I knew.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about if that 16GB gets used up while the install is in progress?

I think one of the 70,000 Microsoft employees just might have thought of that possibility before pushing the update.

They didn't seem to think of the possibility that I might have a long running, important process on a machine that I am not physically at. Restarting a machine just because I am not there to say no is bad.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but not my PC OS? Who said it was?

The choices are (roughly) Install and Later. So you're right, no one has a gun to your head but there is no "never" option and you're constantly nagged. Not to mention you're left out of the modern app ecosystem, which these devices are heavily dependent on for their function.

Exactly.

Oh, you can keep using your old device, you just can't have the latest version of iOS.

Oh, you want apps on your old device? Just install the "___" version of iOS!

Thanks for nothing!

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many/most distributions have major releases every 6-12 months, and the upgrade process is a lot more hit and miss. You might want to try a rolling release distro, something like Antergos (Arch + Tweaks)

I used Gentoo for a very long time (2005-ish to 2009 or so) and tried Arch, too, both back then (after I, uh, toasted a power supply compiling packages for five days straight) and more recently, about a year ago. It's a very good approach, but far too high-maintenance for my taste. During my (latest) short stint with Arch, I became a walking bug tracker. Stick to Adwaita because everything else breaks, don't do that…

Best i can tell the complexity comes from a misguided idea that if just the DEs simplify and automate common tasks, Linux on the desktop will happen.

End result is that the DE people keep pushing ever deeper in the stack, violating long standing layering, that made it easier to reason about why something broke, in the process.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall similar issues for OSX users wrt wifi, and also smb/cifs support. Nothing is seamless for everyone, as it's impossible to test every system... The fact that Apple doesn't get it right on their very limited range of internal hardware is a testament to that fact.

I'm actually stunned by Apple's wifi connectivity issues. I don't know of OS X breaking updates as acute and widespread as Windows, but the space of Apple machines to test is small and predictable, where Microsoft faces an essentially impossible testing task. Beyond that, though, Apple laptops seem to just have shitty wifi connectivity. At a guess, it's one of the downsides of metal unibody design (along with godawfu…

Fortunately, I tend to lag for months usually before updating major osx versions (I don't use my personal laptop much, and at work it's farther behind still), so didn't experience the wifi issue, but did with the cifs/smb change away from samba.

I haven't had connectivity issues, other than it takes a while to switch networks... At home, my macbook has about the best connections of any of my hardware, though my Nexus 6P may be better. I've been able to reliably copy files at 200Mbps+ over wifi. Worth noting I've got fewer than a dozen devices on wifi, and neighboring signals aren't that bad where I live.

At work, it's a bit noisier.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#450
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Microsoft didn't write the drivers for 100% of hardware... and tbh, if a company wants they can pay Microsoft to write those initial drivers, and provided the hardware for testing, iirc, they tend to maintain those drivers between versions. There are plenty of drivers that are written by MS, it's pretty common with Printers iirc, and works pretty damned well. Because foo pro-audio, or bar cnc-board didn't wan…

Nevertheless, because the chance of something like that happening is clearly higher than 0.0000000001%, Microsoft should simply never do such a drastic upgrade automatically. (So, even within Windows 10, they should not automate all upgrades, because occasionally they will have to include bigger changes.) Also, users will not understand this, and will, rightly, blame Microsoft.

Any trivial update has a higher than 0.0000000001% chance of failure... if you need that level of specificity, you should disable updates, and network connectivity altogether.
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