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Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

extremetech.com

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Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#421

Post by notalaser »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #354
cptskippy wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of grass is always greener answer is why the Linux desktop experience is so poor. If someone follows that advice they may fix one issue they have but in return they get a whole new set of problems to discover and troubleshoot or run away from.

They say that using Linux is constantly solving some problems, only for the solutions to produce more problems for you to tackle. You stop when the next problem you face is not annoying enough to care.

There was a point, somewhere between 2009ish and 2011ish, when that was really no longer true, except for the distributions that hopped on the PulseAudio boat really early and had audio broken for a few releases.

I have no idea what happened after that but it's really screwed up.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#422

Post by cptskippy »

notalaser wrote: post #421
TeMPOraL wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say that using Linux is constantly solving some problems, only for the solutions to produce more problems for you to tackle. You stop when the next problem you face is not annoying enough to care.

There was a point, somewhere between 2009ish and 2011ish, when that was really no longer true, except for the distributions that hopped on the PulseAudio boat really early and had audio broken for a few releases. I have no idea what happened after that but it's really screwed up.

What happened in 2011ish that made everything go to hell again?

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#423

Post by RHSeeger »

greenshackle wrote: post #224
pkaye wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a class action lawsuit, the lawyers will get millions while the rest of us will get a coupon for a free upgrade to windows as settlement.

I know class action lawyers who work incredibly hard to defend the 'small people' and don't make that much. They take David vs Goliath cases. They went after a tobacco company, for example. The lawsuits take a lot of work, they only get paid if they win, and they don't always win. I'm sure there are class action lawyers who are in it for the money, but most lawyers who are in it for the money would go into corporate…

While I don't doubt that there are lawyers who are very much in it for the small guy, I can count on one hand the number of class action lawsuits I've seen where the outcome for the small guys in question is anything more substantial than a coupon. That's assuming you consider 0 fingers as a valid count on one hand. (I don't doubt such cases exist, but I've never seen one).

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#424

Post by josefresco »

khedoros wrote: post #202
josefresco wrote: post #79

Since we're all sharing stories of family tech support - I recently had to give my sister's Toshiba laptop an overhaul, upgraded to Windows 10. That's it... no drama, no problems -sorry. Didn't XP teach us all a lesson about locked in/legacy software and it's danger to the security and stability of modern computing? Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but…

> Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but not my PC OS? In my case, two points come to mind, for me. First: My phone isn't as important as my PC. It's just a convenience. If the update ruins something, I can always re-flash to a clean image, and the phone'll automatically re-sync most of my stuff. Or I can grab the spare from the drawer. Or buy a cheap-o r…

"First: My phone isn't as important as my PC"

You're the minority. I don't know a single person outside of tech, or maybe the "office" world that would consider their PC more important than their phone.

"Stick it behind a firewall and don't go questionable places online."

This is a joke right? My Mom's XP is used for browsing mainstream news sites, weather etc. and her PC was thoroughly polluted despite having an active AV/firewall etc. Infections aren't only a problem for those that use BT.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#425

Post by josefresco »

mrweasel wrote: post #169
josefresco wrote: post #79

Since we're all sharing stories of family tech support - I recently had to give my sister's Toshiba laptop an overhaul, upgraded to Windows 10. That's it... no drama, no problems -sorry. Didn't XP teach us all a lesson about locked in/legacy software and it's danger to the security and stability of modern computing? Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but…

>Didn't XP teach us all a lesson about locked in/legacy software I would agree with anyone claiming that this is a shitty argument: Users to some extend brought this upon themselves, because given the option people would stay on Windows XP or older. All the people that are still on Windows XP, their user experience has just gotten better, no longer is Windows nagging them about updates and security fixes. Microsoft i…

"because given the option people would stay on Windows XP or older."

"Can't we just stay on Windows XP"

This is awesome because it highlights my point. Users, if given the choice will defer, defer, defer until it's too late. MS should be applauded for "saving users" from themselves.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#426

Post by josefresco »

DKnoll3 wrote: post #341
josefresco wrote: post #79

Since we're all sharing stories of family tech support - I recently had to give my sister's Toshiba laptop an overhaul, upgraded to Windows 10. That's it... no drama, no problems -sorry. Didn't XP teach us all a lesson about locked in/legacy software and it's danger to the security and stability of modern computing? Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but…

>Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but not my PC OS? Who said it was?

The choices are (roughly) Install and Later.

So you're right, no one has a gun to your head but there is no "never" option and you're constantly nagged. Not to mention you're left out of the modern app ecosystem, which these devices are heavily dependent on for their function.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#427

Post by vocatus_gate »

blakeyrat wrote: post #334
vocatus_gate wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working in Antarctica and we BARELY caught one of our science systems a couple hours before it was about to kick off that stupid auto-upgrade. It would have broke a very expensive and custom box built to run these experiments, which was transported down here at great cost. If I hadn't been wandering by checking on something else I'd never have seen the window and it would've wrecked some poor grantee's years and…

If it's so critical, why hadn't anybody turned off auto-updates? This problem isn't new with Windows 10. It could have just as easily upgrade to a new Windows 7 patch which broke the product.

Do you want the real answer?

Every grantee and science group is different, and builds their boxes back in the States with varying levels of IT competence. Being a wizard in geothermal imaging doesn't mean you're a wizard in building Windows 10 boxes.

So there's all these varying groups (we support over 20 different science groups on our station alone) building their custom boxes on a variety of OS's and hardware to support all their strange sensors and equipment, and many of them are so specialized that no one is allowed to touch them. Nearly all science systems run Windows 7 or some flavor of Linux, and because there is literally YEARS of work leading up to one of these systems appearing on station, we are loath to touch them for fear of breaking some long-running or fragile science project.

In this situation I used my best judgement and determined that blocking Windows 10 would prevent more problems than it would cause for this group, and fortunately I was right.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#428

Post by greenshackle »

RHSeeger wrote: post #423
greenshackle wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know class action lawyers who work incredibly hard to defend the 'small people' and don't make that much. They take David vs Goliath cases. They went after a tobacco company, for example. The lawsuits take a lot of work, they only get paid if they win, and they don't always win. I'm sure there are class action lawyers who are in it for the money, but most lawyers who are in it for the money would go into corporate…

While I don't doubt that there are lawyers who are very much in it for the small guy, I can count on one hand the number of class action lawsuits I've seen where the outcome for the small guys in question is anything more substantial than a coupon. That's assuming you consider 0 fingers as a valid count on one hand. (I don't doubt such cases exist, but I've never seen one).

Yeah I'm not saying the payouts are great. But let's say, pessimistically, that the lawyers took 80%; if they had done it pro bono, you'd get 5 coupons instead of 1. Better, but not by much.

A small payout could be due to greedy class action lawyers, but it could be due to the corporate lawyers successfully arguing damages down to nearly nothing (compared to the size of the class). The second one sounds more likely to me.

In the cases I've heard about, the corporate team had orders of magnitude more resources than the class action lawyers (think 3 lawyers working part time on the case vs. the corporation having an expert prepare for 2 years to appear once in court. I am not making this up.)

I'm biased though, the few class action lawyers I know are good guys, it's possible most aren't. I havn't looked at the field in general, and IANAL, so take that with generous salt.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#429

Post by sametmax »

eropple wrote: post #299
sametmax wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we paid for their OS and expect it to be supported ? Windows 8 was out in 2013, 3 fraking years ago. Even Ubuntu, which is free, has LTS supported for 5 years. When you pay good money for an OS you use in your business, it's damn logical you want it to last you almost a decade without having to play the upgrade game all over again. I don't have time for that. I don't have the money for that. And I don't need…

> Because we paid for their OS and expect it to be supported ? The upgrade is free. You are being supported. You can choose not to upgrade (and I think you're wrong, but it is your choice). What I don't understand the mindset behind "no, I won't upgrade, but I want a bunch of feature-change patches without making me upgrade" (as with the assertion that the auto-restart logic could/should be changed for Windows 7 , no…

No, forcing a version change using the excuse of security is not being supported. Ubuntu has security patches for 5 years and it's free. I pay for windows, give me my security patches.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#430

Post by khedoros »

josefresco wrote: post #424
khedoros wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it okay that my iOS and Android devices essentially require an update several times a year but not my PC OS? In my case, two points come to mind, for me. First: My phone isn't as important as my PC. It's just a convenience. If the update ruins something, I can always re-flash to a clean image, and the phone'll automatically re-sync most of my stuff. Or I can grab the spare from the drawer. Or buy a cheap-o r…

"First: My phone isn't as important as my PC" You're the minority. I don't know a single person outside of tech, or maybe the "office" world that would consider their PC more important than their phone. "Stick it behind a firewall and don't go questionable places online." This is a joke right? My Mom's XP is used for browsing mainstream news sites, weather etc. and her PC was thoroughly polluted despite having an act…

> You're the minority.

I understand that my opinion is in the minority. Maybe I should rephrase it that the actual instances of data on the phone aren't as important. Cloud backup is ubiquitous, easy to use, and gratis from multiple vendors. Pictures, Videos, texts, contacts, etc all either get backed up, or weren't stored on the phone in the first place. With Apple phones especially, it's simple for average users to take a backup image of the phone.

>This is a joke right?

No, it's reflective of my personal experience. I haven't had an infection on an XP machine since about 2005. I have no idea what the heck other people are doing to get into so much trouble. Either I'm doing something magically right, or I've had insane levels of luck. My netbook's on at home, booted into XP right now because I forgot to put it to sleep before I left.

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