Live data from Hacker News

Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

wsj.com

241–246 of 246 posts

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#241
post #211
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification: Americans confuse Indians between those from Bharat/India and Native Americans. Dots and feathers is a common way to differentiate between both. I am from India.

I am from the US. "Dots and feathers" is not a common way in the US. It feels pejorative as well. If it's ambiguous, I say "Indian (from India)" or "Indian (subcontinent)" vs. "Indian (Native American)". Or I'll just say "from India" or "Native American", and avoid that ambiguity. That said, even "Native American" is controversial. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controver... for full details.…

American here, dots and feathers as in "Indian, dots not feathers" or the reverse, is pretty common in my neck of the woods.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there away to say your meaning, but without the ethnic slur for being cheated financially?

To be fair, many educated and articulate people are totally unaware of this connotation.

Yep - well if this thread didn't know before, perhaps they know now : )

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#243
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second that. It is very much like saying there is free healthcare in Venezuela. Fruits and Vegetables are cheaper in Mexican stories, Indian (dots) stores and Chinese Stores than say Walmart or Target. But they are in substantially lower quality. Of course if you are regular and you personally cook then you will have a very good understanding what which store has the cheaper and best stuff. In my experience Onions,…

> Indian (dots) stores Huh?

I'd like to chime in for future readers of this thread, a passive observation. In 2016 Seattle tech, I hear the "dots not feathers" formulation (or rarely the reverse), at least monthly, always in professional settings and nearly always used by a person in describing him or herself. Subjectively it would ring very odd and impolite to hear it from someone not describing his own ethnicity.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty common, I've heard it from several casually racist people several different times throughout my life. Perhaps it is regional. Casual racism (especially outside of talking to friends/family) isn't super common anymore but still a "thing."

Do you mind if I ask what region? I only ask because I had never heard it spending my entire life in a couple different parts of California

Northeast.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#245
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that the dot/feather thing is considered crass, but I will say it's a bit overboard to be offended at it. The idea isn't that all India Indians have dots or whatever, it's just synechdoche, where one aspect of the broader culture stands in for the whole. Like if you said, "He's from America - suit not cowboy boots." (Referring to urban vs rural America) it would hardly be offensive as a stereotype.

"Yankee" or simply "Yank" is a synechdoche that the British use for people from the US. Tell a 6th generation Georgian whose family farm was destroyed by Sherman's March to the Sea that he's a "Yankee" and see what response you'll get. And your 'suit not cowboy boots' comparison doesn't even make sense. In the parts of the US where cowboy boots are popular in rural areas, they are also popular in urban areas. Visit D…

> And your 'suit not cowboy boots' comparison doesn't even make sense. In the parts of the US where cowboy boots are popular in rural areas, they are also popular in urban areas. Visit Dallas and see that dress cowboy boots go just fine with a suit. Governors and legislators, President Bush and innumerable wedding party members, have all paired cowboy boots and suits.

Sounds like it makes perfect sense to me, given that my whole point was that synechdoche is about using a salient feature, not necessarily a universal one. That's what I was trying to say about the dots/feathers thing - cowboy boots are associated with (mostly southern) rural areas - they're even called cowboy boots, even if they are used other places and even if most people in the south or in rural areas don't wear them most of the time. Suits are associated with big metropolitan companies, even though people in rural areas still wear suits.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#246
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yankee" or simply "Yank" is a synechdoche that the British use for people from the US. Tell a 6th generation Georgian whose family farm was destroyed by Sherman's March to the Sea that he's a "Yankee" and see what response you'll get. And your 'suit not cowboy boots' comparison doesn't even make sense. In the parts of the US where cowboy boots are popular in rural areas, they are also popular in urban areas. Visit D…

> And your 'suit not cowboy boots' comparison doesn't even make sense. In the parts of the US where cowboy boots are popular in rural areas, they are also popular in urban areas. Visit Dallas and see that dress cowboy boots go just fine with a suit. Governors and legislators, President Bush and innumerable wedding party members, have all paired cowboy boots and suits. Sounds like it makes perfect sense to me, given t…

> cowboy boots are associated with (mostly southern) rural areas

Your expression seems to become less meaningful as you clarify it.

Cowboy boots are part of Western wear. The specific style (as differing from general equestrian boots) started during the cattle drive era of Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas in the late 1800s.

It spread, certainly. Cowboy boots are a much more salient aspect of Montana, New Mexico, and Wyoming - decidedly non-Southern states - than Virginia, Florida, or North Carolina. What cotton farmer, tobacco farmer, or citrus grower works in cowboy boots? The traditional Florida cowboy wasn't even called a "cowboy", which is the western term, but a cowman or cracker.

I'll say this again, they are indeed called cowboy boots, which means they come from the area where there are cowboys. That's the West, not the South. (The two areas overlap in Texas and Oklahoma.)

So 1) are cowboy boots a salient feature of rural life in the US? No. They are not common to rural life in Michigan, New York, Maine, and other non-plains states.

2) are cowboy boots a salient feature of the rural south? Based on http://www.newsobserver.com/living/fashion/article10118804.h... , at least in North Carolina it is the suburban population which buys the most cowboy boots, not the rural population.

3) Is the south the area where cowboy boots are the most salient feature? No. That would be the West. In the South you buy cowboy boots at places which sell Western wear. You don't buy cowboy boots at a places which sells "Southern clothing."

On the other hand, in the West, where cowboy boots are a salient feature, you are also likely to find people in the cities wearing dress cowboy boots with a suit.

So "cowboy boots" means someone from the West, and "suit" means someone dressed formally, "suit and cowboy boots" means someone dressed formally in the Western clothing tradition.

While "suit not cowboy boots" tells someone in the Western US to dress in the standard US/European business tradition.

But "cowboy boots not suit" makes little sense as a disjunctive. It certainly doesn't characterize someone from the rural US, or characterize someone from the rural South in the US, with someone from the city.

Post reply on HN