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Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

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Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#211

Post by dalke »

tn13 wrote: post #150
wutbrodo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian (dots) stores Huh?

Clarification: Americans confuse Indians between those from Bharat/India and Native Americans. Dots and feathers is a common way to differentiate between both. I am from India.

I am from the US. "Dots and feathers" is not a common way in the US. It feels pejorative as well.

If it's ambiguous, I say "Indian (from India)" or "Indian (subcontinent)" vs. "Indian (Native American)". Or I'll just say "from India" or "Native American", and avoid that ambiguity.

That said, even "Native American" is controversial. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controver... for full details.

Plus, I think many in the US don't know about the bindi, so referring to "dot" in that context may not help as much as you, someone from India, may think.

As to why it feels pejorative, here's are pictures of Native American vendors in Santa Fe. https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/el_camino_real_de_tierra_adent... . One is recent, another from almost 100 years ago. Here's are some more: http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/native-american-vendors-progr... http://adorepics.com/santa-fe-indian-market/ .

Do you see feathers?

Other than decades-old stereotypes from mass media, why do you think "feather" is the appropriate term?

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#212

Post by nommm-nommm »

dalke wrote: post #208
x1798DE wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that the dot/feather thing is considered crass, but I will say it's a bit overboard to be offended at it. The idea isn't that all India Indians have dots or whatever, it's just synechdoche, where one aspect of the broader culture stands in for the whole. Like if you said, "He's from America - suit not cowboy boots." (Referring to urban vs rural America) it would hardly be offensive as a stereotype.

"Yankee" or simply "Yank" is a synechdoche that the British use for people from the US. Tell a 6th generation Georgian whose family farm was destroyed by Sherman's March to the Sea that he's a "Yankee" and see what response you'll get. And your 'suit not cowboy boots' comparison doesn't even make sense. In the parts of the US where cowboy boots are popular in rural areas, they are also popular in urban areas. Visit D…

I also want to point out:

Lets start with nobody said they were offended, just pointed out the GP was using a racial stereotype. Calling a racial stereotype a racial stereotype when asked for clarification isn't the same as "I'm offended," that is jumping to unfounded conclusions.

Saying "Indian (dots)" doesn't make sense out of context unless you are American or very familiar with American stereotypes. You also need the "feathers" part to be able to compare the two to give it some context for those who are familiar with American stereotypes but haven't been asked "dots or feathers?" before. Saying it in an international form is confusing and unclear thus a bad use of language no matter if its offensive or not. Additionally using racially charged language unnecessarily detracts from the overall message the poster was trying to convey and their post is now hidden behind [flagged].

>Visit Dallas and see that dress cowboy boots go just fine with a suit.

I just went to a wedding a few weeks ago where the entire wedding party (including the bride) were formally dressed and wore cowboy boots and I don't even live in the south or a rural area!

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#213

Post by nommm-nommm »

sampo wrote: post #172
nommm-nommm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very impolite but common way that Americans differentiate the two groups of people that are called Indians when the context isn't clear. Native Americans (feathers) and people from India (dots). Feathers refers to Native headdress and dot refers to a bindi, the decoration commonly worn by Hindu women.

Is Indian (IT) and Indian (casino) equally impolite?

Yes.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#214

Post by majewsky »

kuschku wrote: post #134
majewsky wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, asparagus season is just over, lasting from April to June. Interestingly, asparagus is one of the few vegetables which Germans fully accept as being available only seasonally. And conversely, they go totally crazy during asparagus season for no apparent reason. About the only other seasonal vegetable is kale, which Northern Germans will once a year cook to death and serve with disgustingly fat sausages wh…

There’s some more things Germans accept as seasonal: Plums, Strawberries and non-frozen raspberries. Especially strawberries – during early summer, on every street corner there’s someone selling strawberries from a small camping trailer painted red with green roof.

Ah, you're right. I forgot about fruits.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#215

Post by panglott »

r00fus wrote: post #129
elliotec wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in favor of re-spelling it as jipped, and removing the old connotation, because most people don't know that and it is a pretty common word now.

Not sure it works like that - you don't clean context just by changing the spelling.

Semantic bleaching is common enough in word change. Words change enough over time that the actual origin of words can become very obscure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammaticalization#Semantic_bl...

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#216

Post by panglott »

e12e wrote: post #202
gpetukhov wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let's also prohibit the word 'slave' which originates from 'slav', because many slavs were sold into slavery in the middle ages. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=slave Words do lose their negative connotations, especially with different spelling.

Slav and slave have different pronunciation, not just different spelling (and actually, 'slav' in the meaning of slavic people was also spelled 'slave' - not sure if that was with a silent 'e' on the end or not). It's also as I understand it a name given to the slavic people by themselves: "Slav \Slav\ (sl[aum]v or sl[a^]v), n.; pl. {Slavs}. [A word originally meaning, intelligible, and used to contrast the people so…

Because the American speakers who use it don't have a history of discriminating and abusing Roma people? There are barely any Roma people in America to abuse. Certainly in much of Europe Roma people have been treated very badly.

It's certainly true that many portrayals of black people in continental Europe often look very odd or offensive to American eyes.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#217

Post by panglott »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #144
wutbrodo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian (dots) stores Huh?

It's a very impolite but common way that Americans differentiate the two groups of people that are called Indians when the context isn't clear. Native Americans (feathers) and people from India (dots). Feathers refers to Native headdress and dot refers to a bindi, the decoration commonly worn by Hindu women.

Common? I've never heard this.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#218

Post by nommm-nommm »

dalke wrote: post #211
tn13 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification: Americans confuse Indians between those from Bharat/India and Native Americans. Dots and feathers is a common way to differentiate between both. I am from India.

I am from the US. "Dots and feathers" is not a common way in the US. It feels pejorative as well. If it's ambiguous, I say "Indian (from India)" or "Indian (subcontinent)" vs. "Indian (Native American)". Or I'll just say "from India" or "Native American", and avoid that ambiguity. That said, even "Native American" is controversial. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controver... for full details.…

>I am from the US. "Dots and feathers" is not a common way in the US.

I am from the US, I have heard people say things like "I picked up some Indian artwork this weekend, dots not feathers." I've also been asked "dots or feathers?" when I was talking about something Indian. I've also been asked in gestures, pointing to the forehead to represent a bindi then saying "or" and covering and uncovering the mouth while making a noise to do that mock Indian battle cry (see the scene in Peter Pan if you are unfamiliar with it)(1).

Its not super common (for obvious reasons) but I've heard to several times from several different people so its common enough in at least some parts of the United States. Being casually racist in informal conversation is still a "thing" in the United States.

That being said, its impolite racially charged language thus very inappropriate in most cases and should be avoided especially in formal communication.

(1) I am ashamed to admit that I did that while playing "cowboys and Indians" as a child before I knew better.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#219

Post by panglott »

taneq wrote: post #163
jimmywanger wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's an ethnic thing. But I definitely think it's a cultural thing. I agree with you about how many generations-removed you are from food production. Rather, how many steps/middlemen you're used to. For example: China is still a developing country with a generally low per capita income. You're intimately familiar with the seasons, and what's available when, and what it takes to get your food. Few can af…

Was gonna say "ethnic thing means the same as cultural thing", but apparently these days people are using "ethnic" to mean "racial" rather than, well, ethnic?

Frequently in the United States, people interpret mainstream white culture as "normal" and not culturally distinct. Thus they use "ethnic" as a synonym for "nonwhite" or "non-American".

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#220

Post by nommm-nommm »

panglott wrote: post #217
nommm-nommm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very impolite but common way that Americans differentiate the two groups of people that are called Indians when the context isn't clear. Native Americans (feathers) and people from India (dots). Feathers refers to Native headdress and dot refers to a bindi, the decoration commonly worn by Hindu women.

Common? I've never heard this.

Pretty common, I've heard it from several casually racist people several different times throughout my life. Perhaps it is regional.

Casual racism (especially outside of talking to friends/family) isn't super common anymore but still a "thing."

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